Enchanting Improvised Weapons?

[mvincent]

As mentioned, the rules say:
"Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon"

However, I have allowed the party's fry-cook/fighter to specifically make a set of masterwork, light maces that just happen to be shaped like frying pans (which he could then enchant with the flaming ability).

 

[Sejs]

Look at the cost differential for masterwork component price is there a potential for abuse here? I see one.

I don't. Can you be so kind as to point it out?

In my mind, the logical assumption is even if you pay for a tool (a crowbar, say) to be masterwork, it's not a masterwork weapon unless you pay the masterwork weapon (+300gp) cost.

In theory if one really wanted they could pay the price for both a masterwork tool -and- a masterwork weapon to get the bonus to both those seperate uses of the item, but that's costing them more money rather than less.

I see it along similar lines to having armor spikes on a suit of masterwork armor. Unless you pay the additional cost, those spikes are not also MW themselves.

 

[Infiniti2000]

As Sejs said. Note the cost of the shovel I pointed out. I don't see why, if you plan to allow, just require the MW weapon cost. Even if you didn't, the -4 penalty on improvised weapons most likely eliminates any abuse for the 250gp reduction (which is very minor considering the overall cost of the item).

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah that -4 does tend to hurt as you go up levels, even after you past 10th.

 

[Kieperr]

Question:

If you can enhance an improvised weapon as a weapon, as some may allow, then why can you not gain proficiency with it as a weapon to eliminate the -4?

Answer:

Because it is not a weapon.

Tools are designed for specific purposes and can be made masterwork to enhance their use. A shovel is designed to dig holes and can be enhanced to do this better, it is not designed for use in combat.

 

[Iku Rex]

A shovel is designed to dig holes and can be enhanced to do this better, it is not designed for use in combat.

Again: http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-entrenching-shovel-1.htm

In a combat training of Spetsnaz soldiers a great attention is paid to their ability to engage in hand-to-hand combat and to use hand-held weapon as well as various expedients. Among them an entrenching shovel is of special importance; first, it is an element of a regular outfit and, second, it is a formidable weapon of the close combat.

The entrenching shovel is a deadly weapon in hands of a trained fighter. Its effectiveness arises from mobility comparable with maneuverability of a knife, but at the same time the entrenching shovel exceeds the striking power and the effective range of a knife.

The effective range of a knife exceeds the length of an arm by 15-20 cm. The entrenching shovel increases the effective range by 30 to 40 cm. At the same time the entrenching shovel is effective at a very close distance and in a limited space. It is achieved by moving the palm along a shovel handle and in such a way making the length of the weapon shorter.

As far as an open space is concerned, the entrenching shovel has no match to it among other kinds of cold steel.

First, it is light-weighted and handy. Second, it is efficient both at middle and close distances, and even at long distances, in regard to a close combat, of course.

With the entrenching shovel, one can throw a handful of soil or sand at the enemy's face from a distance of four to five meters and profit by enemy's confusion to shorten the distance needed for a blow. Besides, the entrenching shovel is an excellent throwing implement - the range of aimed throw made by a well-trained specialist is 10 meters or more.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If you can enhance an improvised weapon as a weapon, as some may allow, then why can you not gain proficiency with it as a weapon to eliminate the -4?

I would allow that. Heck, even Hyp said he'd allow that IIRC from a thread long ago. But, that's a whole extra feat slot used up on an inferior "weapon". Go for it.

Note: I believe we've all already agreed that it's not allowed per the rules.

 

[mvincent]

why can you not gain proficiency with it as a weapon to eliminate the -4?

Good question. Allowing one to use a feat to become proficient with an improvised weapon seems well within the spirit of the rules.

This must be detailed in some supplement somewhere. I know there is a least one prestige class that has this ability to use improvised weapons without penalty.

 

[Dog Moon]

However, I have allowed the party's fry-cook/fighter to specifically make a set of masterwork, light maces that just happen to be shaped like frying pans (which he could then enchant with the flaming ability).

Right, how many people have played Super Mario RPG? Princess Toadstool uses all sorts of wacky things for weapons.

Although this might not be the best argument for allowing it.

 

[IcyCool]

Why is this not allowed via the rules again? I think I missed it.

1. An improvised weapon is a weapon. (Here's another question, can you use the Magic Weapon spells on an improvised weapon?)

2. If you pay the 300gp masterwork cost during its creation, that improvised weapon is a masterwork weapon (note that this does not make it masterwork for any other use).

3. A masterwork weapon can be enchanted.