Encounter question from an aspiring DM...

[Grossout]

After reading the rules appendix handout, character sheets, and monster stats that have all been posted recently, I'm starting to REALLY get amped for 4E. But I need some help. This is a serious post although I'm sure many of you are going to find it very amateurish. But for those who want to help, I'd very much appreciate it.

I've mentioned this many times before, but I think I need to give a little background about my past gaming experience in hopes that someone can steer me in the right direction:

-I haven't played 3X and quit playing well before it came out. I bet it's been 16-17 years now.
-When I did play, I was never the DM, although I have aways wanted to try it (I guess it's the "entertainer" in me).
-I've preordered the 4E core books and can't wait to absorb them in hopes of starting up my own campaign.
-I'm still confused how to handle "movement" in D&D (we never used minis when I played and for all I know, the DM was probably "fudging" a lot of situations - regardless, it all seemed to work real well).
-I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to start using a grid and minis considering that many 4E character options/abilities/powers have to do with movement. I'd imagine if I fudge that stuff, it would throw the 4E game way out of balance.

My questions are as follows:
1) Is movement constantly accounted for on a map/grid?
2) How much of the map do you show the characters? One of the cool things about not using a grid was that we never knew the layout of the dungeon until we got to that point. How is it played now?
3) Does everyone show on the map that they are moving 5 squares down the corridor during their turn? Or does the DM just say, “okay you’re walking down the corridor” and then only represent characters on the grid when there is an encounter?
4) Page 2 of the rules appendix handout (under “combat sequence”) says the following: “The DM decides where the combatants start out on the battle grid. The DM shows the characters where they can set up their characters and then places the monsters.” – This gives me the impression that the battle grid is just for that – battle only. If that’s the case, how is movement represented when there is no battle? Like I mentioned above, “you’re walking down the corridor, it appears to turn to the left about 30 ft. ahead.” – is that about right?

I’m a little confused by the whole thing and I’d really like some input. Please help out a helpless wannabe DM!

 

[Goobermunch]

1) Not generally. We only account for tactical movement (i.e., when in combat).

2) Only what they can see (or have recently seen).

3) Option B.

4) You are correct.

--G

 

[Grossout]

Thanks for the reply.

What about this part?:

“The DM decides where the combatants start out on the battle grid. The DM shows the characters where they can set up their characters and then places the monsters.”

Is there a general rule for where the combatants start? Is that just something the DM pretty much just makes up on his own, given the narrative of the situation? Does he always let the players pick their spots first and then show where the monsters are?

 

[Gansk]

Usually the DM will ask for a "marching order" beforehand, so the players decide what their normal formation will be relative to each other. Then when the battle is started, the DM just needs to determine the encounter distance from the enemy combatants.

A dungeon situation usually makes the set up obvious. For example, if the PC's open a door to a room, the PC's will start outside the door and the monsters will start somewhere inside the room. Outdoor situations are less obvious - 3e gave formulas for encounter distance based on terrain, then one could roll randomly for the direction relative to the PC's or just simply put the monsters directly in front.

 

[Belphanior]

Generally speaking the players can only describe a marching order or formation. It is the DM alone who can know when exactly they spot a monster and thus when the encounter begins proper.

As an example, we know the PCs march single file into a room with the order Rogue-Fighter-Cleric-Wizard. The DM compares some numbers and determines the Rogue notices a goblin sniper about to aim an arrow. How far are they into the room before he sees this? Nobody but the DM knows, and thus logically it is he who can determine how they're all standing at the start of this ambush. Normally there's some level of democracy involved in this; few groups I've played with keep a tight formation the entire time so the DM instead asks for some pointers. "Wouldn't have strayed more than 20' from the mage as you're all searching the room? Ok then let's put you here."

edit: Beaten to it. Damn yoouuu Gansk!

 

[Xethreau]

Thanks for the reply.

What about this part?:

“The DM decides where the combatants start out on the battle grid. The DM shows the characters where they can set up their characters and then places the monsters.”

Is there a general rule for where the combatants start? Is that just something the DM pretty much just makes up on his own, given the narrative of the situation? Does he always let the players pick their spots first and then show where the monsters are?

IDK about other groups, but mine generally likes to set up a "marching order." This helps the DM adjudicate various situations on the fly. Generally, characters start out wherever they are standing when the party first perceives a threat, or when the DM deems it appropriate (yes, based on the narrative). Of course "where they are" is a relative term, so the DM sets an area for the players to pick their positions from, and based on what is going on in the PC's heads, the players choose positions. And as for the order of revelation, it usually depends on the situation, however, to prevent harmful meta-gaming and to make scenarios more accurate to RP, it is usualy better to place PC positions before monster ones.

 

[Grossout]

So the marching order also determines who falls in the pit trap in the hallway, I guess. Is there anytime when you need to use the grid for things like traps?

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, if the trap hits (for example) "any charactes within 10' of the statue" or some such.

I sometimes set up the battle mat to aid visualization when there is no encounter at hand. This helps keep the players guessing, too. Bonus!

Don't stress too much on the battle mat (by whatever name and in whatever form you use it). Use it when you feel it will add to the game. I wouldn't bother busting it out for an epic party fighting a single first level peasant, f'rex.

 

[Belphanior]

That depends entirely on the trap in question.

Pit trap in the hall? It's just the one who walks in front.
Poisoned needle on the lock? It's the one who tried to pick it.

Do note though that 4E seems to eschew this kind of trap. They are binary (detect or not, hit or not) one-time affairs that quickly get remedied with a single spell of the cleric. Instead it goes for more environmental hazard-like contraptions that have every bit as much personality and dynamic as a monster.

It's more likely you'll have to brave the Hall of the Reaper, which is a corridor with terribe scythe-blades randomly slashing into places from the walls, floor, and ceiling, sometimes empty squares, but woe the one who gets eviscerated by them. And also in this hall are two pitch black Tombdust Wraiths that ignore the lacerating steel even as they silently float at you. Oooohh....

So yeah in that case you're going to need the grid. You'll need to know which squares get randomly attacked , where the wraiths are, where the PCs are, and where the control mechanism is that the Rogue must somehow get to if he wants to shut the damn blades down.

 

[jimpaladin]

@ Grossout

Hey! Welcome to the wonderful world of DM'ing As the others have posted having a marching order obviously makes your job much easier. As far as a battlemat grid, unless they are outdoors, I draw what they see as far as your basic map. I describe what that blue circle means(might be water, might not). When they have told me who is doing what I then go forward with the next section/step. If they decide they want to just "explore" the castle, I give them a vague idea of what they see and change how close they are when an encounter happens. Again this is the DM handling just where the PC's are with player input. It is amazing that everytime something happens everyone wants to start as far away as is possible . Don't know if that answers any questions but it's how we roll