D&D 4E Encounters-per-day guideline in 4e?

[MwaO]

Because healing is maximally effective when it's used on a below 0 HP target, you're actually doing the PCs a favor, right?

Right - I'm giving the Leader a chance to shine by maximizing their healing abilities!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Right, but one of the things that you're describing about healing surge usage reflects that PCs are typically not getting dropped in any given combat. Have one PC dropped each combat and the rest using up 1-2 surges and rotate, and in a party of 4, each of the PCs will likely use up 7 surges after 4 combats.

Now the Defenders will clearly have a say in that and because I'm gunning for one unconscious PC, a little luck+smart tactics means no unconscious PC or the Defender is the PC who gets focused on more, so 4 combats+1 skill challenge tends to be the right number.

Yeah, I think we're aiming for the same basic attrition rate. I mean, knocking someone down was certainly common. I remember a few combats where characters were up and down like crazy. The Cavalier in our last campaign one time got surrounded by 4 enemies, which was GOOD because the rest of the party was trashed. She just would not go down. She was the main leader of the group, so she'd MCed into warlord, and picked up a couple things, plus the party had a Battlestandard of Healing (awesome item, just awesome). The baddies would pound on her and knock her down to 2-3 hit points, and then she'd burn a couple surges and be right back up to full. IIRC they finally did knock her all the way down after she ran through all 11 healing surges or something stupid like that. I think the last few she was swigging potions even. Finally the rogue managed to off a couple baddies, revive the wizard, and they got it all back together.

They were lucky that time in that it was the end of the day. Anyway, yeah, 4 combats and an SC, or even 3 combats and a couple SCs, etc. I always made my SCs fairly resource intensive too.

 

[Tony Vargas]

DMG1 does have some guidelines, but you really have to read between the lines. The magic item power use limit rule, the use of milestones at 2 encounter intervals, number of daily powers and healing surges, etc. all indicates that a 5-encounter day was the model around which the game was designed.

Coincidentally what 3e's "average encounter consumes 20% of resources" ballpark came to.

I could've sworn there was an assumption of around 4 encounters/day.

But I mainly phrased the post pemerton quoted that way to avoid this kind of digression (and thank you, BTW, for taking it to an entirely different sub), which it otherwise did. Though I did get a different kind of digression. ;(

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Coincidentally what 3e's "average encounter consumes 20% of resources" ballpark came to.

I could've sworn there was an assumption of around 4 encounters/day.

While that's theoretically possible, getting an AP every 2 encounters would mean you'd only be expected to spend 1 AP a day. 5-6 encounters means getting 2 AP each day. Since there are a lot of features (especially on PPs) that key into spending APs, I think they'd expect you to get more than just one a day.

 

[Tony Vargas]

While that's theoretically possible, getting an AP every 2 encounters would mean you'd only be expected to spend 1 AP a day.

You start with an AP, so you could expect to spend 2 in a 3 or 4 encounter day, 'around 4' could also include 5 (indeed, having just gotten a 2nd milestone at your 4th encounter, I'd expect pressing on to be tempting, especially pre-E when that also meant an additional item-daily).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

There are certainly a lot of mechanics that contemplate several encounters per day, at least 3 and logically more like 5. Think about bards and Song of Rest, Vampire mechanics, etc etc etc. It sure seems like the instructions to 4e designers was to build towards a 5 encounter day, give or take. I don't know a single rule that seems to be intended to work better with some OTHER number, put it that way.

 

[Manbearcat]

From another thread:

Where did 4e have an encounters per day guideline?

I don't recall ever encountering such a thing. And because PCs are all on the same recovery schedule, I've never felt the need for it.

I don't have access to my books or Dungeon articles on the subject, but I'm pretty sure my recollection is good enough.

I want to say the classic adventuring day model for 4e is 3 encounters @ L, L+2, L+4. The heroes should be somewhat pressed (dramatically, tactically, strategically) while surviving this template, group intact, at an extremely robust clip.

However, as is discussed (at least in DMG2), that model is easily perturbed on multiple axes to achieve desired results (stressing the PCs dramatically, tactically, and strategically). Further, as play moves through the tiers, (as we all know) that baseline progressively moves upward. Probably to something akin to L+2, L+4, L+6 at Paragon and L+4, L+6, L+8 at Epic.

My last Epic Tier adventuring day (level 24 PCs with Companion Characters) was something like:

* 4 above level Skill Challenges (all C1 or C2; L+1, a couple L+2s and maybe an L+4?)
* 1 combat nested in the first SC (L+3 I think?)
* another SC nested combat (way overlevel, L+8 or so, but they just had to survive 8 rounds)
* a BBEG combat that included 3 adjacent encounter zones with a bunch of Companion Characters and activatable rampart defenses (maybe L+3 in each zone with one of them L+4)
* a final BBEG showdown with the remaining forces from the combat above regrouping and rallying at the town square as the Far Realm mutates smashed through the outer wall, the kill box, and the inner wall. This ended up being not too bad for the PCs as they fared ok in the above 3-zone combat (maybe only L+4).

That is effectively 10 encounters (all above level, some well above) at Epic Tier and the PCs were down to nothing left. But they won.

 

[pemerton]

In my 4e game, the current "adventuring day" started with an assault on Orcus - a level+8 encounter - then a level+6 encounter, then a skill challenge (level 30, complexity 2 or 3? I can't remember), then a level+5 encounter which was complicated by a lack of unity among the party in a 3-way confrontation.

That will probably be the shortest day for a while, in terms of number of encounters (normally we would be closer to 6, I think) but they have been pretty demanding.

 

[Eric V]

Just because I'm insanely jealous...how many hours of play is the above adventuring day? Have you hacked 4e at all?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Just because I'm insanely jealous...how many hours of play is the above adventuring day? Have you hacked 4e at all?

Just bow to the awesome that is Pemerton, we can only stand in the shadow of such greatness! Its in fun, but there's actually a measure of truth here. Some people have a real knack, whether for DMing or for learning to do stuff well when they beat their heads at it long enough.