Encounters with the Supernatural

[Hawkeye]

Re: Kevin Randle, UFO publicist, and also Kal Korff's book "The Roswell UFO Crash"


There were several difficulties to getting the "full" Roswell story.

1) The first interviews for the first book were conducted in 1978 - more that 30 years after the event alledgedly took place.

2) What evidence was available to the general public showed that the primary Roswell "witness" (former Major Jesse Marcel) has a difficult time telling the unvarnished truth.

3) Officers at Roswell AAFB were able to recognize the remnants of weather balloons and radar reflectors, but the U.S. government denied that any balloons had been released. This was because the source of the debris (project MOGUL) was classified due to its nature. Project MOGUL was part of a project for spying on the Soviet Union. High altitude reconnasaince was conducted by releasing a series of balloons with radar reflectors and material that would show traces of the particles that would result from a Soviet nuclear test. The balloons would be launched from western Europe and recovered in the Pacific. This confusion could not be cleared up until recently, when the U.S. government declassified the material.

4) Due to the long time lag, there is substantial evidence that the dating of other events has become confused as several "witnesses" associate events that demonstrably took place at other times with the Roswell event. The Air Force report can be obtained through:

I agree with all of that.



[QUOTE/]You are not doubting his intelligence, education, or dedication, but you are making a serious slam against his integrity. Still, this does not affect his actual arguments. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.[/QUOTE]

I never doubted his integrity. He maintained his beliefs to the end despite harsh criticism from others. That is integrity. My problem, is that his skepticism seemed to be a knee-jerk reaction. Anyone who automatically denies the existence of something or automatically believes in something going into a scientific investigation is not going to have a truly objective view to review the data. Their bias will tilt them one way or the other. Its the old "judging a book by its cover". I still maintain that his primary job was working for the US government to "debunk" the UFO sightings that had normal, reasonable, relatively easy explanations for being something else besides little green men from Rigel VII. The government needed this done to assure the public that unknown aircraft were penetrating US airspace.


[QUOTE/]A scientific study must be published, and it must be made available for review by qualified individuals. In this sense, NICAP & MUFON have simply been gathering data.[/QUOTE]

I have not checked recently, but I believe that NICAP and MUFON do publish their studies in their own digests and make them available for review, just like any other field of science.



[QUOTE/]There is nothing to suggest that the results would be any different in form: Any event that allowed reasonable examination showed no evidence of alien activity. (That does seem to be the conclusion of your next paragraph, to be fair.) The changes in our understanding of the universe have made the alien hypothesis less likely, not more likely. [/QUOTE]

I never said UFOS were caused by aliens. You did. Is there something you are not telling us Mr Astronomer? I said that I have seen something strange in the sky, that didn't fit my understanding of aircraft at that time. That was in the early 80's. I was near a major air force base. There is a chance, that what I saw was an early version of the stealth bomber or a flying wing project. I am very familiar with conventional aircraft.



The difficulty, of course, comes from finding funds for such a study. The previous examinations of this material have been negative enough that I do not know of a professional who wants to spend his/her valuable research time on a question that seems to have so little prospect.[/QUOTE]

Just wait until I win the powerball. I would love to see a serious up to date sutdy similar to the one done in the 60's.

Hawkeye

Edit: Still learning the quote system.

 

[wolfen]

I knew a guy who was in the air force for 12 years and got to see a lot of documentation. I really trust him, he's a very respectable, conservative, down to earth guy.

He said one time 2 fighter jets were flying around Cuban airspace and caught the attention of...something. I think they were cuban jets. So it pursued them. The fighters warned the "flying saucer" to stand down or they'd be forced to fire on it. When one pilot locked/targeted its missile onto the UFO, the fighter disintegrated.

The wingman saw the whole thing and flew back to base yelling the whole way. The american intelligence guys intercepted all the radio traffic and radar. In the communications, the pilots were frantic and adamant that it was a UFO.

Was it the rumored saucer in US custody? I dunno... but it wasn't a conventional US fighter jet.


wolfen

 

[Thresher]

Reminds me of a story a friend told me, he was in the army for about 6 years and like me sort of ended up at uni doing of all things 'Visual Arts' for some reason.
(Beats shooting at people I guess )

He ended up doing guard duty at an air base one night when a C130 came back in after doing some terrain mapping work, at first he didnt think much about it except for a whole heap of 4wds pulled up full of MP's and brass and waited for it to taxi in.
The crew gets off, somewhat pallid and worried as the MP's and brass move in for some questioning and everyone gets carted off for a debriefing a few minutes later. Then groundcrew end up crawling all over it for a few more hours while his patrol finishes.

About 3 days later off duty he catches up with one of the guys he knows pretty well that was an airbourne techie on the Herc and asks him what happened. Seeing theres no one else around the guy tells him what happened.
For about the first hour they where just doing their business with the precision mapping laser, its an infra red one from memory that basically sends a beam down over a large area and records how far the plane is from the ground while it maintains a steady altitude. Theres also a whole heap of other specialised radar, of which I know quite a bit, but I'll shut my hole on what that does.
Then things got pretty weird.
The lasers and radar are mapping away and everyones recording it when they pick up something 150 metres underneath the plane about 20-30 metres across which is blocking the laser. They extend the laser out and its mapping ok except for that round 30m pit underneath the plane that sitting at a constant 150m and moving around down there when they adjust their altitude.

The radar is picking up absolutely nothing. So they do everything with the visual recording devices on the plane to check out what the hell it is with starlight enhancers and even to the point of banking hard and looking out the side.
Cant see anything.
But the laser can.
So for the next 4 hours they try to put up with this thing moving around underneath the plane, check everything with the onboard diagnostics, check it again a few more times and its working A-ok.
The laser goes down about 150m and can see the blot 30m across, focus the laser around the object and its working fine reading those areas and they can even see the object bank with the plane whenever they move.
Fed up they head home and the object heads off somewhere else.

Now, it wouldnt have been that much more than an anomaly with the laser except that its happened 3 times this bloke can remember while he's been doing mapping that particuar area and it always drew in a lot of high level brass, MP's who gave them clear instruction that "it did not happen" and it did not happen because of the equipment being faulty.

 

[dave_o]

Dave, if you ever vanish from the boards, we will at least know what happened to you.... *the door thudder was one of the major things that freaked me out on this thread*

Well, just so everyone knows, if I'm gone a lot in December - I'm not dead, my girlfriend is living with me.

And in May, I'll be gone for almost the entire summer - as I am MOVING AWAY FROM THIS TERRIBLE PLACE.

 

[Rugger]

Well, just so everyone knows, if I'm gone a lot in December - I'm not dead, my girlfriend is living with me.

And in May, I'll be gone for almost the entire summer - as I am MOVING AWAY FROM THIS TERRIBLE PLACE.

...or else you got thumped by the Door Thumper! Aaaaaaaaahhhhgh!

-Rugger
"I Thump!"

 

[Dr. Harry]

Anyone who automatically denies the existence of something or automatically believes in something going into a scientific investigation is not going to have a truly objective view to review the data. Their bias will tilt them one way or the other. Its the old "judging a book by its cover". I still maintain that his primary job was working for the US government to "debunk" the UFO sightings that had normal, reasonable, relatively easy explanations for being something else besides little green men from Rigel VII. The government needed this done to assure the public that unknown aircraft were penetrating US airspace.

I consider that a truly objective view does not assume the existance of a phenomena when no evidence exists to support it.

I do not think that your last sentence is correct; consider the Soviet planes that were left as "UFO's" because the truth would embarrass the government.

Edit: Still learning the quote system.

To begin a quote type left bracket - the word "QUOTE" - right bracket. The slash is only used in ending the quote.

I realized that I had, in a sense, another UFO story. Back when the TV show "Sightings" was on, which my apartmentmates and I called -- well, something else, we would hit it every once in a while to see how stupid FOX TV thought the American public was. At one point, they were showing footage by some cameramen who had snuk into the Nevada desert near "Area 51" with a camera equipped with a starlight scope to observe "captured UFO technology". An aircraft was visible through the scope was moving about. What makes this funny is that the current issue of popular mechanics had an article about the "Aurora", the next-generation stealth aircraft that the Air Force has denied existed. The diagrams in the magazine matched the silhouette on the screen beautifully, so (assuming that the footage was not faked) FOX missed a chance to have a story on a top-secret plane to peddle "captured UFO" footage.

Harry

 

[Phaedyme]

I was reading about this the other day in a local magazine, as it happens to me whenever I walk down the street, though not when I drive. There is no scientific explination for it so far, and paranormal investigators are starting to treat it as a serious paranormal event.

I used to live in a small town wherein the streetlights would often shut themselves off when I walked near them. It happened so often that I actually stopped noticing it.

Same street as the streetlights, the year before I moved away, there was a weird thing with a drain. Water would flow into the street every time I walked by the drain. I'd stop and watch it, to see if the water would flow before, and nothing happened. I walked past, and it flowed. I waited after, to see if there were intervals, but no such luck. It bothered me for no rational reason.

 

[MoonRaven]

Wolfen,
Yes, actually, I have had to stop gaming for a moment to tell a ghost or two to leave me alone for awhile. It's never been Marilyn, though It's usually someone like "Ethel Marten, died in 1890, lived in Boston, etc, etc". Usually I get a bio of their life and sometimes a request to find something or contact someone (usually the "someone" is long dead, though). I've actually looked up some of the contacts I've had on geneology sites and 90% of them from the 1800's on have been correct (proof for me, at least, that I'm not some hallucinating psycho).

The pictures are usually taken at haunted places (which I'm not given any info on the location until after I read the pics), though I have had a couple of people send family photos where I've seen things. Never any billboards yet, lol. I've had some nice, graphic dreams of late as well (yay, more fun stuff), mainly of murders that have taken place. I never know the exact location, though (though I'd be able to recognize them if I ever ran across them).

 

[The_Universe]

Halloween

With Halloween quickly approaching, I thought I'd give the site a much-needed bump, to see if we could learn more about any paranormal creepiness that all you enworlders have ACTUALLY experienced.

Happy haunting!

 

[Rugger]

With Halloween quickly approaching, I thought I'd give the site a much-needed bump, to see if we could learn more about any paranormal creepiness that all you enworlders have ACTUALLY experienced.

Happy haunting!

Ooh! My favorite thread back from the dead!

Aren't we do for an update from Dave_o anyhoo...

-Rugger
"I Zombify!"