Encumbrance, hunger, and less gold = more immersive roleplaying...?

diaglo said:
may i suggest you also include

1) training requires a mentor, costs big bucks and time, and doesn't necessarily take on the first try.

PC: Hey dude, what level are you?

GM: You can't ask that - it's metagaming.

PC: OK... hmm... Hey dude - how many times have you felt the urge to go training?

GM: Umm. Err. Stop that.

Training in an RPG is largely silly, unless you're actually handing out extra XP to characters who do it. And that just throws D&D balance right off.
 

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Dr Midnight said:
All income halved
Fine idea, just keep in mind the CRs assume there’s a level of magic items in the possession of the players. If you halve the income, make sure you tone down the CR slightly
Characters must eat & drink regularly
Again, good idea. I don’t know of a mechanic that would showcase this idea. Using the rules for hunger and starvation as per the DMG is a good start, but if you know your players well enough, they might be able to role-play hunger and such. Just encourage it with bonus XP
Encumbrance will be noted and used
Fine, the mechanics seem to be fine as it is. Don’t be surprised if more than a few people want to play dwarves (who maintain the same speed encumbered as unencumbered)
PC skills kept and rolled solely by DM
I personally don’t like this idea. There is a certain amount of gratification that comes with seeing the 34 you rolled on your knowledge check. For the search rolls, disable device, hide, and such, go ahead; just allow the players to roll the skill checks that don’t reveal things you don’t want exposed (ie: spell craft, craft, tumble, etc).
Overland movement taken seriously and role-played
So long as you can handle the overland movement without the game bogging down. I've seen good role-players choak when it comes to traveling. Emphasis the time (as how long overland movement takes in game time), making camp in secure locations (bonuses to the secret spot and listen checks if they pick a good spot; or penalties for camping on directly on the road).
Shops only have a handful of items, based on their likelihoods, and few special weapons
Again, a great idea. This is something that almost all DMs do to some extent. Some have value tables and percentages for finding that +5 vorporal sword; others develop entire stores based on a town, the shopkeeper, or near by markets. A mixture of the two should give you fairly good results.
New skills, feats, etc. must be earned and justified
This idea may prove difficult. If you enforce paying for leveling training, halving the parties income could prove damaging. If you do decide to enforce training or earning skills and feats, do not forget spell casters and their spells. A cleric may have to take up a quest of some sort while a wizard may have to scribe his new 3rd level fireball spell in the blood of an Azer or Salamander. With the cost/time for training, they may have to take off a few months from adventuring to earn money working as apprentices, assistants, selling off some surplus items (which could take the whole time and not pan out) just to scrape up the supplies and money to successfully level.

I suppose the biggest issue is to assure that the game does not become tedious - there is a certain point after which emulating reality become too real and boarder on out right boredom. From your shinning record here on enworld, I'm sure you're up for the challenge.

Good Luck and waiting for the story hour,
Erge
 

I'd suggest radically reducing the amount of cash available and replacing it with trade goods and barter. Most of the PC's income will be in goods and services, and very little cash will exist.

This means more encumberance, less easy to carry wealth.

Weapons and armour all commissioned from armourers and weaponsmiths - no "off the shelf" items available.

As well as penalties for not eating, give bonuses for great food. e.g. +1 morale bonus to all skill checks for that evening after eating at "The Royal Inn". Consider providing temporary Morale bonuses for other social activities which the PC's will find uplifting.

Believe me, bonuses work MUCH better than penalties for encouraging compliance!

(you could extend this and provide -1 or +1 morale effects on all rolls for quality of trail food, for weather conditions (especially if wet) etc. That will give these things significance in game terms.

Another thing that you might want to consider is re-writing the encumberance rules, so instead of relying upon distinct poundage everything has an ENC, based on how easy it is to hold it one hand (as a basic guesstimate). Armour can have ENC = armour value, light and normal weapons are ENC 1, 2H weapons are ENC 2. Your basic carrying capacity is STR, at 1/3 STR you are lightly encumbered, at 2/3 medium encumbered and at full STR highly encumbered. Something simple likes this makes it dead easy to measure encumberance without too much accounting.

Cheers
 

I also think, boni would work better. The dwarf with his constitution of 20 might eat and drink only every other day,when penalities threaten, but if there's a bonus to be had ... just make sure, that too much eating and drinking can give penalities, too - you don't want to fight right after having feasted and drunk yourself into stupor ...
 

It seems like I've been beating the same drum in almost every thread I post in the last week or so. I'll try and stop before I become too much of a one-trick-pony. But I think it is applicable so here goes:

Read Robin Laws' Robins Laws of Good Gamemastering and try to categorize your players as to what type of roleplayer they are and what part of the game makes them happy and coming back for more. If it looks like most of them get their fun out of kicking butt, powergaming and getting cool treasure (and understand that I don't regard any of those as bad things) then I would suggest not running a campaign with this level of granularity for them.

That said, as a player, I'd probably really enjoy it.

I am a Tactician at heart. I love delving into the minutae of logistics and have been known to read U.S. Army Survival Manuals for fun with great frequency. In the campaign I'm currently playing in, we were recently shipwrecked on an uncharted island (what are the odds of that? ;)). I took great delight in cataloging our resources, prioritizing their removal from the wrecked ship, coming up with creative uses for them and trying to use what we had to create a makeshift vessel to get off the island (Quall's Feather Token: Tree, use number 1,002! :D ). In that environment, securing a supply of food and water, shelter, tools and a means of making an ocean-going craft were critical to the success of the adventure. I love this sort of stuff.

A few other things that I've done and seen done to enhance immersion:

Props as treasure - You don't want the character to have to track every piece of equipment he has with a little doo-dad of some sort. But in the past, we've used actual foreign coins to serve as in- game money and little plastic gemstones to represent gems we've discovered. I found that this enhanced roleplaying when you slid a few coppers across the table to the GM when buying a drink. Even better were the times when I was trying to bribe information out of an NPC and I could watch the GM's expression change as I began stacking silver coins in front of him.

Non-Standard Magic Items - +3 Shocking Greatswords are cool and all, but the magic items that I always remember and that enhance the game are the ones that have unusual powers that might not be considered "powerful" in the typical game. A hooded cloak that can never get wet, no matter how much it rains is a neat item. A small pair of chain links enchanted such that when pulled on can expand to 100' long is a distinctive item. A hat than can transform itself into any kind of headwear, a sword that glows when somebody tells a lie in its presence, or a shield that can act as a Tenser's Floating Disc for 2 hours each day are all the kind of "signature items" that help breathe life into a campaign.

Non-Standard Non-Magic Items - This is kind of like the last bit but even non-magic items can really stand out if they are described in a detailed manner. I had an NPC weaponsmith in my last big campaign who was a master of craftsmanship but crappy as an artist. His weapons were almost always well made but very simple and unattractive to look at. Not the sorts of things that a noble would want hanging off his belt, but the average soldier would love to have one of his swords, even though they had plain, unadorned quillons. Switching up Masterwork qualities can also help make things interesting. I don't think there would be anything unbalancing about saying that a certain Masterwork longsword didn't grant a +1 to hit, but did give a +1 to damage because of the serrations along the edge.

I guess part of what I'm getting at is that many players won't mind if they get less treasure (in terms of strict GP value) so long as the treasure they get is "cool". The Halfling Rogue that I'm currently playing wouldn't mind finding a +2 Frost Dagger. But I'd be even happier to find a Rope of Climbing with a personality, named Squiggly. Mega cool.

Once again, I caution you to honestly assess your players and think about whether they will have as much fun with that sort of game as you will. Ask them outright and see what they say. If they aren't wild about the idea of a more austere campaign, you can still add a few of those touches to keep you happy without making the game too "grim and gritty".

Good luck.
 

The only thing I really don't like on the list is halving the gold. I've played a gold-starved campaign.

Another thing you might consider is tracking actual spell-component use, not the little bags of 25 pinches of magic dust.
 

I tried some of this in my game...

I halved treasure and XP for a while...it ended up that advancement wasn't happening fast enough to keep the players interested...and that was playing once a week! :) They often whined that they were "weak" on equipment...and I think they were right. This is something to handle with care.

As far as accessibility for items, this is the system that I used, and it worked fairly well:

- I'd determine what they were looking for (they'd usually tell me).
- Then create a base DC based on what it is, whether is is something "rare" in the area they are, and if it is just something I'd rather make harder to find. So I'd start like this:

Common Item: DC 10 (+1 weapons and armor, minor scrolls and potions)
Uncommon: DC 14 (+2 gear, scroll and such of spells level 3-4, most misc magic items)
Rare: DC 18 (+3 gear, scrolls and such of spells level 5-6)
You're Kidding, right?: DC 22 (really whacked out stuff... +4 and +5 gear, the biggest of stat buffing items, the kinda gear that there just aren't too many people making due to the levels needed)

So there's my base DC... and it is an arbitrary decision of the DM.

Now I take into consideration the effort they put into it. If they roleplay it hard, or show signs at attempting to really TRY, I knock 2 or so off the DC.

Then I add +1 to the DC for each 4000gp value of the item (yeah, this breaks down at higher levels...)

So with my new DC in hand, I tell them to roll their Gather Information check... Others can assist...no retries...and can be done once per trip to town (or so...). If they have MAJOR downtime, I'll even let them take 20...sometimes... :)

If they have especially good hookups in the town/city, I'd sometimes reward them with Circumstance bonuses (or penalties) to the rolls...something that I could offer as rewards.

This worked out pretty well...but as I said, at higher levels, you almost have to let them buy whatever they need...

Just my 2 coppers...

-Rugger
"I AmAStingyItemDM!"
 
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Saeviomagy said:


PC: Hey dude, what level are you?

GM: You can't ask that - it's metagaming.

PC: OK... hmm... Hey dude - how many times have you felt the urge to go training?

GM: Umm. Err. Stop that.

Training in an RPG is largely silly, unless you're actually handing out extra XP to characters who do it. And that just throws D&D balance right off.

hey dude how many ranks do you have? or what is your BAB? etc...;)

all mechanics are metagaming. just ask the wizard or sorc or other spell casters about learning to cast spells.

the point is to roleplay them.:D
 

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