Encumbrance, hunger, and less gold = more immersive roleplaying...?

[Phoenix8008]

I like the ideas presented so far in this thread and would like to use some of them myself in my next campaign. One additional thing I was considering (which would work well with the lifestyle upkeep costs on page 130 of the 3.5 DMG) is the possibility of making more time occur between each adventure. This gives more chances to drain the PC's of money over a longer period, and also keeps the weird time warp of 1st level-20th level in 8 months of game time from happening.

I was also considering making clerical magic weaker or more rare in order to inspire a more 'grittty' game world. That or I just forbid the party from having a PC cleric. That might be enough. Or just make the mages rule the land and have clerical magic outlawed...Hmmmm!

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Hope you don't mind if I print out this thread and keep these ideas so I can remember them by the time I start my next campaign.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Actually, I just had a good idea. If you want to know whether a particular item is available to the players, you could always have them roll a 'gather information' check. No take 10's or 20's - the dice is representing the happenstance of the object being present. The DC would be based on the purchase price of the item (because that's probably a decent enough metric for the rarity of the item). Success by a significant amount means the owner of the item is easy to find. Success by a mild amount means finding the item will require some minor hardship (travelling, doing a quest for the current owner etc), mild failure results in you not finding the object, and a major failure would result in totally incorrect info (typically leading the players on a wild goose chase).

The only problem with this might be that if your players twig to it, then they'll ask for every single magical item in every single shop, just waiting for that '20' to crop up.

 

[jester47]

I make people keep track of encumberance, and use the upkeep rule.

As for skill checks--

Every player rolls every skill check in my game. The way I do the hidden skill check is to have every character roll a d20 20 times and write down the rolls. These are all the "it would tip the players off about somthing if I ask them to roll" rolls. This way, they made the rolls, but they are still kept secret.

Aaron.

 

[Renshai]

Have you thought about running such a game in Midnight? The setting is perfect for that sort of play...

Ren

 

[Celtavian]

1. How do you keep track of a character's hunger? Do you just say "you're starting to get hungry, better find some food," or are there decent penalties you can impose on a character who's gone too long without food or drink?

You can look in the DMG. Also, at least one of the cleric's in my group marks off the Create Food and Water spell daily when we are actually adventuring. Most of the time I don't charge players for their downtime. I just have them tell me what they are doing and make sure they include a suitable means of obtaining an income. For example, the fighter might work as a mercernary, the wizard might cast a few spells for another wizard, the cleric or paladin will work for the church, etc. etc.

2. Is there a downside to a DM rolling all PC skills, beyond his players whining about it?

Usually doesn't make the players happy, and you have to make alot of rolls as a DM. It becomes tedious after a while. Might want to have them make alot of rolls in advance and keep a sheet. Or only make their rolls for key skills like Move Silently, Hide, Sense Motive, Spot, Listen, Open Lock, and Disable Device. Most other skill checks they should roll themselves such as Tumble, Knowledge, Survival and such.

3. Shops having only so many varied items is something I remember best from the FINAL FANTASY games, and I've been sad that every weapons shop in every town can likely sell you a Holy Avenger, because the DM doesn't want to spend the time determining what each shop has/hasn't that other shops do/don't. Is there a system for this, besides just rolling percentile each time a player asks if there is a certain kind of item?

I don't allow players to buy items that I wouldn't consider common adventuring gear in high demand. They must have them commissioned. You just have to think about the kinds of spells and items that would be commonly used on adventurer. My list usually includes the following:

Healing Potions
Wands with Protection from Elements, Restoration, Remove Paralysis, Healing.
Magic Carrying bags which would be a lucrative business for a magic shop.

Most other items would have to be commissioned. Though I would allow the players to buy additional items, they will still have to wait a substantial amount of time before they are able to obtain them.

It helps the roleplaying immersion if the players develop a relationship with a good enchanter who can make them weapons.

Finally, does anyone else beside me think that the above ideas will really contribute to an immersive game, where your head is in tune with the character and the world around him/her? Will it all be worth it?

Characters must eat & drink regularly
Encumberance will be noted and used
Overland movement taken seriously and roleplayed
Shops only have a handful of items, based on their likelihoods, and few
special weapons
New skills, feats, etc. must be earned and justified

These all help roleplaying immersion. I don't think you have to roll the players skill checks. That is part of the fun of the game for a player is making their own rolls.

Thanks for your time.

My pleasure Doc. I can't wait to read your new story hour and see the great artwork that it inspires you to create.

 

[Numion]

PCs should also remember to relieve themselves from time to time .. you don't want to fail that fort save!

 

[Gavin Moergen]

Dr Midnight

Our group plays for about 5 hours at a time on friday nights. In one of our last adventures we had to go high into the mountains with 2 weeks of food into very cold weather. We dressed warmly, but rolls were constantly being made and damage assessed due to the cold. The upshot of this was that 5 hours were spent making rolls, taking subdual damage, and eventually searching for food.
This super-detailed, immersive role-playing seems like a good idea on the surface, but speaking for myself (and some other party members) it makes for a very boring evening. I don't need to role-play cooking, eating, bathing, and other mundane details because I do them everyday in real life.
As far as all roles being made and kept track of by the DM, I would say that players like rolling. It keeps them involved and interested, and cuts down on your paperwork. If you need a role that is important that the players be unsure of their success, have them role the dice, blindly, behind your screen and don't let them see the number until appropriate. Rolling dice involves players and cuts down on boredom, which cuts down on off topic behavior.

As far as shops go, our DM has always had (with the exception of planescape) an unspoken rule of thumb. Magic items don't appear in shops. Their too valuable to become a common commodity.

There is nothing wrong with firmer encumberance rules, but they can bog players and DM down with record keeping

Thanks for your time

 

[diaglo]

may i suggest you also include

1) training requires a mentor, costs big bucks and time, and doesn't necessarily take on the first try.

2) scarcity of spell components, spells, and shops that deal with magic. causing many a quest for even some simple items. also require availability of components based on season

 

[King_Stannis]

In one of our last adventures we had to go high into the mountains with 2 weeks of food into very cold weather. We dressed warmly, but rolls were constantly being made and damage assessed due to the cold. The upshot of this was that 5 hours were spent making rolls, taking subdual damage, and eventually searching for food.
This super-detailed, immersive role-playing seems like a good idea on the surface, but speaking for myself (and some other party members) it makes for a very boring evening....

I will be hanging my head in shame and taking the next train up to Boston for some well needed pointers.

Kevin, I hope you've got a spare room.

 

[ForceUser]

Encumberance will be noted and used

This is a vital thing to note in 3rd edition, mainly because you shouldn't let rogues with a 10 Str evade fireballs while carrying a backpack crammed with 50 lbs. of stuff. There needs to be a noticable disadvantage for using Strength as your dump stat, as much as having a low Charisma or Consitution. That onus falls on you, the DM.

PC skills kept and rolled solely by DM

I'm ambivalent here. I understand the allure, but rolling dice helps players feel involved. I use a happy medium IMC: sometimes I call on them to make their rolls, and sometimes I roll their checks in secret if I don't want to say stuff like "Yeah, I had you make a Spot check, but you didn't see anything. Ahem. Carry on."

Overland movement taken seriously and roleplayed

This stuff matters a lot until the party gets access to teleport and wind walk.

1. How do you keep track of a character's hunger? Do you just say "you're starting to get hungry, better find some food," or are there decent penalties you can impose on a character who's gone too long without food or drink?

In town I make them pay an "upkeep" cost, which is a variant in the DMG. I mean, come on, do you really need to roleplay it every time they stop in the tavern for a swig of ale? For extended forays into the wilderness they'd better stock up on rations cuz we'll be marking them off day by day.

2. Is there a downside to a DM rolling all PC skills, beyond his players whining about it?

Yeah, refer above.

3. Shops having only so many varied items is something I remember best from the FINAL FANTASY games, and I've been sad that every weapons shop in every town can likely sell you a Holy Avenger, because the DM doesn't want to spend the time determining what each shop has/hasn't that other shops do/don't. Is there a system for this, besides just rolling percentile each time a player asks if there is a certain kind of item?

Friend, listen to me when I tell you that A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe is the best freaking resource a DM can ever own, and those DMs who don't buy it, use it, and cherish it are stinky poo. It has this cool economic simulator that basically sets DCs for getting stuff. The rarer or more costly the item the higher the DC, and if you fail you can retry but the cost goes up for the item on each retry. It is the only product to ever get 10 out of 10 from a Monte Cook review. It won an ENNie. MMS:WE is god. BOW YOUR HEAD.