Energy Drain

[Dour-n-Taciturn]

I have no problem with some effects being long term, such as diseases, which have little to no penalty at first, and then may progress to be truly debilitating, but in such a case the character at least has several opportunities to make a save/endurance check and/or receive treatment.

I do not like severe/scary effects, such as energy drain, to be long term, these tend to model a death spiral-type scenario; no thank you, not as a core rule. I understand many here may like long term "gritty" effects, but to me such things often make for a tedious and unfulfilling gaming experience.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The reason such mechanics exist is to model the effects of certain beings whose touch- or in rare cases, mere presence- is somehow inimical to life as we know it. Without such mechanics, some critters just don't feel right.

The design choice, thus, should not be whether such things should be a core game mechanic- they should be, if for no other reason than to ensure they are properly playtested- but rather how many creatures have such a mechanic. It SHOULD be rare; DMs shouldn't be throwing Draining critters at parties left & right in 99% of all campaigns.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I always liked the original- sure it was nasty for bookkeeping, but it felt right.

In 5Ed, it could be a 4 step condition degradation. To use 3Ed terminology, I think it could work by making a PC Fatigued => Exhausted => Staggered => Unconscious.

+1!

I love the 2nd and 3rd edition level drain and I hope they bring it back.

As a PC I want to fear undead and I want there to be a unique mechanic to do just that.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I am not a fan of the current HD rules, so I would not be happy with that kind of drain. Stat damage, as someone said, would be a pain to use as it would force people to change so many thngs on their character sheet, but you could drain the end result; like instead of draining Con, drain 1 hp/ level and give a penalty to saves.

So what's the difference in having to add mods because of buffs and penalties to numbers because of stat drain or something equivalent?

That's what a scrap piece of paper is for.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I have no problem with some effects being long term, such as diseases.

To be honest, I never liked long term diseases because by the time they really did any damage the party had a way to cure the person.

Not telling the person about the disease was almost useless because most of the people knew which creatures spread diseases so when I would ask for a saving throw they knew right away what was going on.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In 5Ed, it could be a 4 step condition degradation. To use 3Ed terminology, I think it could work by making a PC Fatigued => Exhausted => Staggered => Unconscious.

To clarify- this shouldn't happen on 4 consecutive hits. That would be too much, too fast. It needs to be conditional.

1) Perhaps it takes a crit to bestow the condition- and more powerful Energy Draining undead have better odds of scoring a crit.

2) it could be a hit that triggers an immediate saving throw.

3) it could be something that requires the undead to expend a resource of its own: burning an action point; one of its "4/day" or "4/Encounter" Drains; etc.

4) perhaps- for certain undead- it could be contiditonal, so that they could Drain only on unholy ground, under a full moon, etc.

5) for truly anathematic creatures whose very existence is an affront to life (major undead, powerful aberrations, certain extraplanar beings), they might even Drain in a continuous aura, and the longer you stay in the aura's radius, the more you are drained (IOW, you must save each round, and if you fail, your condition worsens). Such an aura may even do some HP damage in addition. For such creatures, I would say that either you only need save once, regardless of the number of overlapping auras you encounter, or this kind of aura is limited to unique beings, just for mechanical reasons.

6) it could be a specialized die-roll mechanic: for each event for which an undead could Drain a foe- either by attack or by aura- the DM would roll a special die (let's say it's a d10). Weaker draining undead only actually Drain on a 10, but more powerful ones might drain on a 9, 8, 7, or even a 6.

Overall, this system has 4 main advantages I can see: it would use existing game mechanics without really creating much in the way of new substystems, just a new way to use them; the mechanics match the fluff; the danger is real (for any class); the bookkeeping is minimal.

(Note to self: this may be a good HR for 3.X games.)

 

[slobster]

So what's the difference in having to add mods because of buffs and penalties to numbers because of stat drain or something equivalent?

That's what a scrap piece of paper is for.

Giving a straight buff to an end number like attack bonus is as easy as addition. Same as subtracting. Changing fundamental scores, i.e. ability scores, is more complex because so many secondary scores are affected by your base scores.

"Curse of clumsiness" that gives you -2 to attack rolls and AC is easy to apply on the fly.

"Curse of clumsiness" that gives you a -4 penalty to dex means you now have to pore over your character sheet and modify your AC, your ranged attack bonus, your initiative modifier, skill checks that rely on your dex score, your combat maneuver rolls . . .

It gets a lot more complicated.

 

[Sadras]

To be honest, I never liked long term diseases because by the time they really did any damage the party had a way to cure the person.

Not telling the person about the disease was almost useless because most of the people knew which creatures spread diseases so when I would ask for a saving throw they knew right away what was going on.

This is where you need to "cheat" as a DM. Don't tell them to make a saving throw - disguise it. Have them roll it some time later calling it something else and have the whole group roll, OR the next roll counts as their saving throw unknowingly OR the DM rolls for it secretly OR just infect them with the disease automatically, screw the roll (story is always much better than die mechanics).
Then start describing to them the effects they gain over time, perhaps they infect others unknowingly.

I had a PC in my campaign make love to a succubus (4E), of course he thought it was someone else . He willingly slept with her repeatedly in the night. I didnt roll for his domination or his will - I just ruled that she "pumped" him for information about the party and that he was a willing participant.
He only found out later what he foolishly did - it made sense to the story. Mechanics should always take a backseat to storytelling. Always!

 

[Emerikol]

Maybe someone's already said this as I didn't read every page - sorry just saw this thread. I did though want to get my idea out.

1. Undead drain static x.p. You never lose a level. You just take longer to gain the next level. Also by being static, wights are fearsome to lower level PCs and not as fearsome to higher levels. Still a little bit fearsome though.

2. Undead apply a permanent -X on all rolls. This can be removed by restoration which should not be too hard to get but it should cost money. At higher levels, someone should be able to cast restoration.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I think that draining HD is a bit too much, it really just causes more damage. I'd prefer a more subtle effect to make the characters seem exhausted from level drain - a penalty that reduces the number of HP restored when a HD is spent (I'd say downgrade the HD but Wizards would struggle..). Build up too large a penalty and you'll actively take damage when you rest!