Energy Drain

[F700]

I'd prefer something quick and simple like direct xp loss. Not an entire level, just loss from your xp total, something to the tune of 10d10.

I'd also go for a random damage table in addition to the xp loss that would include ability damage, losing a spell slot or points, inability to use a class feature until the end of the next extended rest, etc.

Whatever it is, the wight needs something to dial up it's nastiness.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Most of these ideas- XP loss, drop in Max HP, a change in max negative HP- do not strike me as a good model for Energy Drain. Sure, it's scary in the long run, or as you get more damaged, but they lack a certain something. There seems to be little or no immediate effect on actual combat prowess or magical potency...something that prior versions of this ability have had.

They may be nasty, but they don't seem to live up to the moniker, "Energy Drain."

 

[Sadrik]

Most of these ideas- XP loss, drop in Max HP, a change in max negative HP- do not strike me as a good model for Energy Drain. Sure, it's scary in the long run, or as you get more damaged, but they lack a certain something. There seems to be little or no immediate effect on actual combat prowess or magical potency...something that prior versions of this ability have had.

They may be nasty, but they don't seem to live up to the moniker, "Energy Drain."

Idk about the other ideas but the penalty to max negative HP is in addition to the other damages and you can make those as dangerous as you like. I like this idea for a number of reasons:

• you are burning on both ends of the candle so to speak die on one end and turn into a wight on the other.
• It can model many other very dangerous situations like suffocation, falling , and other situations where HP are not a good interpretation of those types of dangers.
• It is very simple, con score + level how simple is that, lose that and you die.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not saying it isn't an interesting mechanic, just that it doesn't fit Energy Drain to me.

 

[Steely_Dan]

I like the idea (fear) of Energy Drain, but I do not dig characters having a throw-down with a Pit Fiend, only to run like little girls from a Wight.

 

[tlantl]

CON drain would be fine, but I think I'm OK with the "negative level" concept: each successful hit (with failed save) deals a negative level which has the effect of -1 to all rolls and checks until cured or it wears off. Accumulate negative levels greater than your character level and you die and rise again as a wight (so 2 negative levels kill a 1st level character, 2for a 2d, and so on). Alternatively, a less deadly approach would be that if the character dies with negative levels still in effect, it rises again as a wight.

I don't think energy drain should be either temporary or healable. I think that players who lose life energy have to earn those levels back through play.

Perhaps it would be better if you had to fail a number of saves before losing the level or lose a certain percentage of hit points before the drain takes effect. But once the level is lost you need to earn those lost points back.

Alternately a draining creature could suck away experience points as well as do damage to the player. Each hit could drain 100 xp for every HD the draining creature has.

So that wight in the bestiary would drain 600 xp per hit. Since the creature is absorbing xp as it inflicts damage, the victim could regain half of the lost xp when the thing dies.

This could also be a way to increase the power of the monster. If the thing drains enough XP it might gain a HD.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

I like the fear (both for chars and their players) inducing effects of energy drain of 2e/3e but it creates a death spiral. And once you have dished out a certain amount of energy drain the chars are too weak to go on.

1) If recovery takes long or is impossible they have to either have to take a detour to recover whick might take quite long ingame.

2) Or they have to abandon the adventure if they can't recover enough to go on. Doing lower level adventures.

If you as a DM are fine with 1) and 2) you are probably pretty happy with previous versions of energy drain.

If you want the encounter to lead to either 1) or 2) that's fine too.

OTOH, if you want to put fear into your PCs hearts just for the encounter or maybe an adventuring day or any shorter period of time that involves less/no special recovery sources you would need a different style of energy drain.

How the 5E energy drain should be designed I don't know. But I hope it won't be the old death spiral style.
Or even better they give several options for how energy drain should work. So both sides or mores sides get what they want.

 

[Steely_Dan]

I don't think energy drain should be either temporary or healable. I think that players who lose life energy have to earn those levels back through play.

Yeah, that's exactly what I don't want, a player having to spend how-many-sessions getting back to where they were because they got slapped by an undead monster.

 

[Zustiur]

Sounds to me like we're in module territory.

There is a fairly big divide here between players who want to have permanent effects and players who want effects to go away quickly. This ties in with the healing quickly or slowly debate. I suspect that for some players, level drain ruins or gets in the way of the story. For others, level drain is the story. I see this fitting in with the whole story-based vs dungeon-survival based gaming mentalities.

So, with that in mind:
Energy Drain Modules
1) For dungeon survival focused games; you lose a level until regained through XP or through restoration spell
2) for story focused games; you lose a hit dice
3) for games in between the two extremes; You lose current, and maximum, hit dice, and the max doesn't return until you receive restoration.

Individual monster entries determine how many levels or hit dice you lose. Wights might have 'energy drain 1' while vampires have 'energy drain 3'.



Or something like that.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree that there is a big divide: those who want truly scary stuff such as Level Drain, and those who hate it.

I think that if the game turns level drain into damage, that's practically like giving up on the idea altoghether. It's just another damage type, bleah...

I don't think we necessarily mean a whole "module", tho it might be ok to call it like that, but I think anyway the key is level drain to be optional.

My suggestion is to make level drain really scary, and then all you need to do is making it optional for each monster that used to have it, it takes only a tiny addition to a monster's stat block:

Vampire
Usual stats: attack, HP...
Special abilities: ability X, ability Y, level drain(optional)*
XP: 1500 (*1000 without level drain)

You don't really need to change everything else.

Also, I quite liked how energy drain was handled in 3ed. You didn't really need to recalculate anything until the negative levels became a permanent level loss. You had 24 hours to find a way to remove those negative levels (although this was sometime trivial with a high-level enough Cleric that could cast Restoration), but at least there was a potential for an interesting rush against time.