Energy Immunity is the DEVIL!

[pawsplay]

IMO, it's a wider problem than that. Accordingly, I would like to briefly turn your attention here:

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/variantfewerabsolutes1.html
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/variantfewerabsolutes2.html

Yeah, pretty much. Sure, fire resistance 300 is effectively immune... so why not use fire resistance 300 if it's virtually the same thing, but admits the possiblity of taking 400 fire damage?

DR/magic was a huge breakthrough compared to "immune to nonmagical weapons" from previous editions. I think energy immunity should have received even more scrutiny.

 

[Treebore]

Well, hopefully they will get rid of most immunities. Plus I hope they even cap out resistances to 30, IE +1 per level/HD, and maxing out at 30.

Treating creatures like they have open ended power scaling is a mistake, which is a large part of why Epic levels didn't work very well for non fighters.

We are definitely going to see a good bit of things being restircted and lowered in overall power for the "sweet spot" to be maintained through more levels.

 

[Nifft]

I'd honestly prefer something like ER 5/fire (more like DR, where you need the specific energy type to deal full damage).

Thus a weak devil might have ER 5/acid or electricity; a strong devil might have ER 15/acid.

I much prefer that vulnerabilities be the secret knowledge that is sought after.

Cheers, -- N

PS: This would also remove the "power via neglect" that accreted around Sonic damage.

 

[Pale]

Unless it's skin is able to deflect the lead and the body is able to dissapate the kinetic energy.

Or a creature that has a body the consistency of ballistics gel... like most of oozes.

 

[Merlion]

Personally, the only major problem I have is with the fact that at mid-high levels, save or dies (which I dont really mind in themselves) become one of the only mechanically viable offensive magical options.

I dont mind creatures being totally immune to certain things, if its in line with their mythical/literary origins and/or nature. Fire Elementals for example should be totally unharmed by fire and heat.

I also dont think such resistances and immunities should be able to be overcome in the case of creatures who are composed of that element or energy or otherwise have it as part of their engrained nature.

However, having all Fiend types be immune to 1 or 2 energies, and resistant to 3 or 4 more is a bit excessive. Part of this problem is due to the Fiend groupings (Baatezu, Tanar'ri etc) all having the same set of defenses. I think each demon/devil whatever should have its own set, and usually perhaps 1 immunity and a couple of resistances.

I also have a bit of a problem, mechanically and conceptually, with Golems "magic immunity." They basically have unbeatable spell resistance against all spells subject to SR. And yet they are basically just animated statues.


A lot of the problem at mid-high levels lies in so many creatures having good saves, lots of HPs, SR and energy resistances all at once.

I think in some ways I'd like to see more creatures with specific immunities/resistances/save bonuses, and full blown Spell Resistance saved for fewer creatures with a more specific anti magical nature or the like.

 

[Stalker0]

A lot of the problem at mid-high levels lies in so many creatures having good saves, lots of HPs, SR and energy resistances all at once.

This is one of the problems with the "treat monsters with the same rules as pcs" mechanic of 3e. It has a lot of benefits, but this is one of the major drawbacks. They've already mentioned they will move away from this mechanic, meaning they can tailor monsters to more specific needs.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

... I'm not overfond of Spell Resistance or Energy Immunity. If I dash off a fireball, I want it to hit.

I bet that the melee types really aren't that fond of Damage Reduction (Or Regeneration) either. When they land a hit with a sword, they want something to be bleeding.

There are plenty of creatures that have blanket immunities of some sort. Players only tend to notice the ones that make things particularly difficult for them.

The only real problem is when a DM ends up using it as a crutch to trump a player tactic that makes the DM's preferred combat approach fail. The casters in my game really like Hold Person and Hideous Laughter. It is pretty hard to resist the urge to start making sure every opponent either has a strong will save or other way of avoiding those spells. And I am sure that plenty of players can recall games where shortly after getting that coveted fireball spell, they started facing lots of monsters with either the Fire Subtype, Fire Resistance, or great saving throws.

Anyway, Energy Immunity is not the Devil.

Energy resistant Regenerating Trolls with Spell Resistance and Damage reduction are the real devil.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[mhensley]

I bet that the melee types really aren't that fond of Damage Reduction (Or Regeneration) either. When they land a hit with a sword, they want something to be bleeding.

Yep, DR is not necessary when AC is supposed to cover the same ground. If something is hard to damage, make its AC higher. Either give us AC or DR, but not both.

 

[Merlion]

Yep, DR is not necessary when AC is supposed to cover the same ground. If something is hard to damage, make its AC higher. Either give us AC or DR, but not both.

I disagree strongly with this. I know they claim AC is "supposed" to represent "both", but I think what is now AC should represent only things that involve getting out of the way, and things like armor that are actually supposed to reduce damage from an actual hit should be DR of some kind.

And supernatural monster DR is also, conceptually, a whole other thing in many cases. Some times its just physical durability, almost like hardness, but in the case of things like vampires fiends and others, its more mystical, and has nothing to do with AC.

 

[Merlion]

This is one of the problems with the "treat monsters with the same rules as pcs" mechanic of 3e. It has a lot of benefits, but this is one of the major drawbacks. They've already mentioned they will move away from this mechanic, meaning they can tailor monsters to more specific needs.

I think the energy resistance issue has more to do with it being a new mechanic in 3e that they wanted to throw around everywhere.

Spell Resistance has always been a little too ubiquitious.

I hope they dont go too far away from monsters using the same rules as PCs, because I think its logical, and because a lot of people really enjoy playing non-standard races/specieis.

However, I dont think its necessary to spend time and energy tailoring each monster to possible use as a PC, if straightforward rules for doing so are provided elsewhere. And the focus, especially with wildly non-humanoid monsters should be on their role as adversaries/threats.