Energy Weapons VS Ballistic Weapons

[John Q. Mayhem]

And hey, just look at one of my favortie sci-fi settings, the Halo universe. Definately still using ballistic weapons there.

That's one of the reasons I like the Schlock Mercenary world. Plasma cannons and gauss guns side-by-side.

I especially like the cee-sabots. Remind me of the heavy cannon from the Berserker books.


In my crazy sci-fantasy space opera I'm this close to starting, projectile weapons are rarer than magic guns simply because they need a bunch of metal that you have to haul around. It's easier to carry a few batteries and have a ship's mage recharge 'em, or charge up from the magical engines (under the watchful eye of a magineer) than to cart around a box of shells and a few magazines.

 

[Roudi]

For proof debunking this common myth see Mythbusters

By knockback, I mean: Target gets hit, the kinetic energy knocks them backwards or down.

I saw the episode in question. What the Mythbusters debunked was the ridiculous, Hollywood-esque, three-meters-backwards-through-the-bar-window knockback. If you watch the episode again, you'll see that there was some knockback from each shot; the targets at least recoiled from the shots, and from some of the closer ranges / higher calibers, the target was actually knocked off the stand. This is what Ralts means by knockback; not the Hollywood misrepresentation, but the actual physical transfer of momentum from one (ballistic) object to another.

Seeing as Ralts has done his fair share of shooting and has been shot himself, I think I'll take his word on matters like this.


As for the ballistics / energy weapon issue: I definitely think that advanced in energy technology would not halt the use or development of ballistic weapons. This is, of course, assuming the setting in question is based on realistic science fiction (if it is more space fantasy, like Star Wars, then it can handwaive anything it wants). I recently read David Drake's Redliners (a novel I'd recommend for anyone who likes their sci-fi hard & gritty). The book presents both ballistic weapons and energy weapons on roughly equal footing; both have their merits and disadvantages. Personally, I think the main ballistic weapons in the book (stingers) are the scariest handheld weapon I've ever heard described in a novel.

And that's just it. As technology levels increase, ballistic weaponry gets SCARY. The ability to fire smaller masses with greater force and higher speeds makes for some dangerous firepower.

 

[Imperialus]

Back when I was young and stupid I was present at the 97 Seattle Riots. I got shot in the ribs with a rubber bullet from a range of at least 30 meters (halfway down an inner city block) and it, to quote Mr. Ralts. "Knocked me ass over teakettle". It felt as if a large gentleman had punched me in the chest with all his strength and I spent about a minute and a half just lying on my back admiring the pretty clouds of teargas which was about all I could work up the engergy to focus on.

 

[Ron]

Ballistic weapons should be the main arsenal of any realistic futuristic setting. In order to energy hand weapons replace their ballistic counterparts you will have to introduce a powerful portable energy generator or battery. I'm not sure if this will be ever possible, especially because it should cost much more than the chemical propolent used on guns.

However, I don't care much about technological realism in a science-fiction scenario.

 

[Lord Wyrm]

Anyone ever played Rifts? The energy weapons are fairly commonplace and can demolish small non-hardened buildings easily enough, and the bigger stuff can really ruin a dragon's weekend. Then you go over to ballistics, the low end SDC handguns can bring down a person, but thats about it, but the rail guns can take on about anything out there. The best stopping power is the Boomgun mounted on a Glitterboy, It's capable of destroying most power armor in one shot, and just about everything else in less than five.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

A rifle, particularly an assault rifle (yeah, a combat weapon) will knock you FLAT on the ground, even if your vest stops it. It will also break ribs and leave a really nice purple bruise for everyone to admire.

A heavy pistol, such as the Colt .45 or the Glock .40 will also knock you on your butt.

Honestly, I'd have to wonder if the guys from Mythbusters were using cold loaded ammunition, assault rifles, the rest? Or did they use a .22 or a .38 snub nosed revolver?

 

[Chaldfont]

Waaaay back in junior high English class, I read a scifi short story about a scout sent to explore new planets. The R&D guys sent him along with an experimental disintegrator pistol. When he arrived, he was attacked by a pack of space-wolves. He disintegrated one of them, and when the rest of the pack kept coming, he remarked that a regular pistol shot probably would have scared them off. In the resulting fight, he ends up stuck in a hole made from a missed disintegrator shot. When he gets out, he finds that his shots have neatly sliced open his spaceship's fuel tanks.

Months later, a rescue crew arrives. They find him living happy in a handmade log cabin with a nice stockade to keep out the local fauna. They ask him how the pistol worked out. He shows them the hammer he's using to pound in a fence pole--its the disintegrator.

Sorry for the aside. This thread just reminded me of that story. I wish I could remember its author and title. The main character would much rather have had a hunting rifle.

 

[C. Baize]

A rifle, particularly an assault rifle (yeah, a combat weapon) will knock you FLAT on the ground, even if your vest stops it. It will also break ribs and leave a really nice purple bruise for everyone to admire.

A heavy pistol, such as the Colt .45 or the Glock .40 will also knock you on your butt.

Honestly, I'd have to wonder if the guys from Mythbusters were using cold loaded ammunition, assault rifles, the rest? Or did they use a .22 or a .38 snub nosed revolver?

Hey, Ralts...
I know we've discussed this in person, but these fine folks weren't present, could you relate how hard you were tossed when you were shot with that high caliber weapon?

 

[Corwyn_kop]

From what Ive read the kinetic shock from small arms isnt enough to knock someone down by itself. Now I have never (and have no intention of ever) put it to the test personally but I did see footage of an individual shot at about 2ft range with one of the HK 7.62 assault rifles while standing on one leg and he didnt stumble. They put a phonebook inside the vest for padding. Mind you, I cant say for certain that the footage was absolutely legit but I thought I would throw it out there. If anyone is interested, the footage was part of a video called "Deadly Weapons" which attempted to "factfind" on various things people believe about firearms. Its probably been about 15 years since I watched it and it seemed pretty informative for the absolute neophyte I was way back then.

To get off of the tangent, until we hit the technology=magic point, I really dont see energy weapons replacing ballistic weapons. The only way that I could see it happening is if there were some sort of cheap, reliable, and very effective means of stopping a piece of metal flying at high velocity. A personal shield or something that was readilly available and that would completely stop a projectile would do the trick maybe...and even then I think we are approaching the tech as magic line.

By the way, I hope all is well with you Ralts and that we get more zombie goodness soon!!

Corwyn

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

From what Ive read the kinetic shock from small arms isnt enough to knock someone down by itself. Now I have never (and have no intention of ever) put it to the test personally but I did see footage of an individual shot at about 2ft range with one of the HK 7.62 assault rifles while standing on one leg and he didnt stumble. They put a phonebook inside the vest for padding. Mind you, I cant say for certain that the footage was absolutely legit but I thought I would throw it out there. If anyone is interested, the footage was part of a video called "Deadly Weapons" which attempted to "factfind" on various things people believe about firearms. Its probably been about 15 years since I watched it and it seemed pretty informative for the absolute neophyte I was way back then.

It's the phone book that did it. It absorbed the majority of kinetic shock.

When I got hit, it picked me up and threw me out of the back of the CUC-V. It didn't penetrate the vest, but it did not the wind out of me. It hits, and hits HARD, don't be fooled by a lot of these fact finders who pad the experiment with multiple vests, additional padding, and a lot of time, cold loaded rounds.

I like how they add padding, which disperses the kinetic energy, and claim it doesn't knock you down.

By the way, I hope all is well with you Ralts and that we get more zombie goodness soon!!

Now that I've got a new computer, things are going good!