Enervation

[frankthedm]

I see nothing in the description there that indicates you should reference energy drain for further details.

So how many defintions and versions of negative levels are there in your vision of the D&D game?

 

[ThirdWizard]

The SRD does not have a heading of "Negative Levels from Energy Drain." It is "Energy Drain and Negative Levels" So, there's really no difference between the two, and it lists all the things that happen as a result of energy drain attack and negative level attacks. The spell's "the subject gains 1d4 negative levels" seems pretty clear cut to me that it gives real negative levels, not something like negative levels or pseudo negative levels but actual negative levels.

 

[Mistwell]

The spell's "the subject gains 1d4 negative levels" seems pretty clear cut to me that it gives real negative levels, not something like negative levels or pseudo negative levels but actual negative levels.

If all the spell said was "the subject gains 1d4 negative levels", I would agree with you. However, given the rest of the spell description, it seems equally clear to me that the purpose of listing the effects in the spell description is to list the effects of the spell rather than give a semi-summary and refer one to another rule.

So, like many rules that are open to interpretation to reasonable minds, why don't we just agree to disagree and say it's going to be up to your DM to decide what the spell does.

 

[frankthedm]

And it seems equally clear to me that the purpose of listing the effects in the spell description is to list the effects of the spell rather than give a semi-summary and refer one to another rule.

So, like many rules that are open to interpretation to reasonable minds, why don't we just agree to disagree and say it's going to be up to your DM to decide what the spell does.

For some reason I get a hunch you and paws object to the idea that the Enervation spell creates life draining undead of it's victims. But I can't be certain since it can be hard to "read" people by their posting.

I'll be the first to admit I really like the idea that the use of such a spell on weak souls would create life force feeding undead creatures.

 

[Mistwell]

For some reason I get a hunch you and paws object to the idea that the Enervation spell creates life draining undead of it's victims. But I can't be certain since it can be hard to "read" people by their posting.

I'll be the first to admit I really like the idea that the use of such a spell on weak souls would create life force feeding undead creatures.

I don't object to that idea. There has to be some reason so many undead seem to rise without someone around to control them, and that's one way to explain why at least those undead seem to be more common, and I don't think it would be unreasonable or unbalancing to have that effect in your game. I just don't think the spell was actually intended to do that by the authors of the spell.

 

[werk]

11th-level sorcerer has six 4th-level slots, and four 5th-level slots, plus 1 bonus for each (Charisma 20) = 7 + 5 = 12. (Maybe I'm missing something.)

Quasqueton

If you're rolling over 5th level spells so you can say a big number that is misleading, might as well roll over the 6th level ones too!

Anyway, 6+cha bonus 4th level spells, the rest is boasting.

 

[Quasqueton]

If you're rolling over 5th level spells so you can say a big number that is misleading, might as well roll over the 6th level ones too!

An 11th-level sorcerer doesn't have 6th-level spells. Why are you being snotty? *I* didn't make the claim, the Player did.

Quasqueton

 

[werk]

An 11th-level sorcerer doesn't have 6th-level spells. Why are you being snotty? *I* didn't make the claim, the Player did.

Quasqueton

Sorry, figurative you, I thought it sounded bad when I sent it.

I also got 11th level caster with 12 spells reversed into 12th level caster with 11 spells, but whatever...Totally unrelated to the thread, nothing to see here, carry on.



As for the wight argument, "A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight. "

That is inclusive text. Killed by necromancy, rise as undead, makes sense to me!

 

[pawsplay]

The SRD does not have a heading of "Negative Levels from Energy Drain." It is "Energy Drain and Negative Levels" So, there's really no difference between the two, and it lists all the things that happen as a result of energy drain attack and negative level attacks. The spell's "the subject gains 1d4 negative levels" seems pretty clear cut to me that it gives real negative levels, not something like negative levels or pseudo negative levels but actual negative levels.

I read that as "energy drain and what results from them, which is negative levels," not "Energy drain, and also, by the way, negative levels."

The spell has a specific decription of its effect. The description of a spell trumps a general rule. That heading is from Abilities and Conditions, not from the magic section.

There is nothing in that spell, not one thing I can see, that refers back to the energy drain special ability and that heading.

EDIT: Let me also add the some quotes from the section, beginning with the first sentence:

Some horrible creatures, especially undead monsters, possess a fearsome supernatural ability to drain levels from those they strike in combat. ..
After 24 hours, the afflicted creature must attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 attacker’s HD + attacker’s Cha modifier). (The DC is provided in the attacker’s description.) ...
Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

Clearly, this all refers to a supernatural ability.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Granted, enervation can drain them until they run out of hit dice, killing them, but I'd rather just burn their face off.

Actually, I disagree. It's the same source and it doesn't stack. The most you can do is 1d4 negative levels (sans maximize and empower) from enervation and that's it. It's the same concept as ray of enfeeblement, which doesn't stack with itself.

By a strict reading of the rules, if you drop a classed spell caster's "Caster level" below when they get that spell level, they can't cast any of those spells at all of that level.

Fortunately, you're dropping the CL "whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation", which is not for determining spells per day or spells known. Your point is arguable if you only read the spell description (and then barely so); and from your arguments here, that isn't so.