Enhancement bonuses on Bane weapons

[gonzimodo]

Can the Bane special ability on a weapon make its enhancement bonus higher than +5?

For example, if you have a +5 longsword of undead bane and you are attacking undead, is it treated as a +7 weapon?

If so, would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

Does the use of the Greater Magic Weapon spell change any of this? For example, if you have a +1 longsword of undead bane with Greater Magic Weapon bringing its "base" enhancement bonus up to +5, would the Bane enhancement still make this a +7 weapon vs. undead, and would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

 

[Dross]

Can the Bane special ability on a weapon make its enhancement bonus higher than +5?

For example, if you have a +5 longsword of undead bane and you are attacking undead, is it treated as a +7 weapon?

If so, would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

Does the use of the Greater Magic Weapon spell change any of this? For example, if you have a +1 longsword of undead bane with Greater Magic Weapon bringing its "base" enhancement bonus up to +5, would the Bane enhancement still make this a +7 weapon vs. undead, and would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

A casting of GMW would not qualify a weapon as epic, regardless of the temporary "+" the weapon now is.

The bane description in my SRD does not mention what happens when the weapon becomes greater than +5. I'd used it as a specific over the general rule or: greater than +5 does not make it epic since you only treat the + as 2 better, it does not change the state of the weapon from average to epic

I'd class it like a circumstance bonus and as such I'd run it as: Yes it is a (pseudo) +7 weapon, but no it is not epic.

I think the FAQ handles this Q, and I'm sure that this has been discussed on these boards as well (pre-crash).

 

[Vegepygmy]

Can the Bane special ability on a weapon make its enhancement bonus higher than +5?

For example, if you have a +5 longsword of undead bane and you are attacking undead, is it treated as a +7 weapon?

If so, would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

Does the use of the Greater Magic Weapon spell change any of this? For example, if you have a +1 longsword of undead bane with Greater Magic Weapon bringing its "base" enhancement bonus up to +5, would the Bane enhancement still make this a +7 weapon vs. undead, and would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

AFAIK, the FAQ does not answer these questions.

FWIW, my interpretation is that yes, a +5 bane weapon is treated as a +7 weapon against its foe...so yes, it would overcome DR/epic...and yes, it will work on a GMW'd weapon.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Can the Bane special ability on a weapon make its enhancement bonus higher than +5?

For example, if you have a +5 longsword of undead bane and you are attacking undead, is it treated as a +7 weapon?

Yes. That's what Bane does, by RAW.

If so, would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

IMO, it does NOT overcome DR/epic.

Yes, it has more than +5, but one of the prerequisites for an epic magic item is that it was created with both the normal and epic versions of the relevant Item Creation feat, and doesn't incur the associated costs, etc. From the SRD: "In addition to the materials and tools required for nonepic magic items, any epic magic item requires at least two item creation feats: the epic and nonepic version."

In this case, adding the weapon's bonuses didn't involve an epic feat (did it?), so I'd rule it's not an epic weapon, and can't penetrate DR/epic (in either of the cases you point out).

No epic feat, no epic magic.

 

[Shin Okada]

From SRD,

Bane: A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or subtype of creature. Against its designated foe, its effective enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus. It deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe. Bows, crossbows, and slings so crafted bestow the bane quality upon their ammunition. To randomly determine a weapon’s designated foe, roll on the following table.

So yes, against undead creatures, enhancement bonus of undead bane weapon is +2 better than it's normal enhancement bonus.

Thus, +5 Undead Bane weapon's enhancement bonus is +7 when attacking an undead creature. Thus, can bypass DR 5/Epic of Aspect of Vecna.

AFAIK FAQ is silent regarding what is "its normal enhancement bonus" in this case.

Assuming a weapon is a +1 Undead Weapon and a 20th-level caster casts GMW on it.

A DM may say that the weapon's "norml enhancement bonus" is +1 and it is increased by +2 due to bane property. And it also gains +5 enhancement bonus due to GMW. Then, as enhancement bonuses don't stack, it's final enhancement bonus is +5 against undead.

Another DM may say that the weapon's "normal enhancement bonus" is already +5 due to GMW. Then, it is increased by +2 due to bane property. Thus, it's final enhancement bonus is +7 against undead.

As a DM, I usually take the latter interpretation. But I guess there will be DMs who don't agree.

 

[pawsplay]

A +4 weapons becomes +6. The definition of "epic" in this case (look it up) is an enhancement bonus of +6 or higher. Therefore,

Can the Bane special ability on a weapon make its enhancement bonus higher than +5?

Yes. There's no rule against it, and any stuff about "permanent" versus "temporary" enhancement is house rules territory.

For example, if you have a +5 longsword of undead bane and you are attacking undead, is it treated as a +7 weapon?

If so, would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

Yes, and yes.

Does the use of the Greater Magic Weapon spell change any of this? For example, if you have a +1 longsword of undead bane with Greater Magic Weapon bringing its "base" enhancement bonus up to +5, would the Bane enhancement still make this a +7 weapon vs. undead, and would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

I'm going with "no" here. A +1 longsword is not "normally" +5. Also, bane is not a temporary property. As soon as the weapon is constructed, it becomes +2 higher than its "normal" enhancement bonus against a certain foe. It says nothing about applying this bonus to more than one enhancement or applying it multiple times.

 

[frankthedm]

IMHO GMW should never have been allowed to stack with preexisting weapon properties, but that is what the rules allow for.

Also feel bane is too cheap at "+1" because of how the rules work on a few angles.

 

[pawsplay]

But then again, bane, which is only useful some of the time, boosts the costs of a high level item overall. It might have worked better as a +10,000 gp property or something, or perhaps have only granted the enhancement boost, making it nice but less tempting to pull the old GMW shennanigan.

 

[pawsplay]

IMHO GMW should never have been allowed to stack with preexisting weapon properties, but that is what the rules allow for.

Also feel bane is too cheap at "+1" because of how the rules work on a few angles.

Intant houserule inspiration: bonus of GMW is reduced by 1 for each plus of properties.

 

[Nifft]

Can the Bane special ability on a weapon make its enhancement bonus higher than +5?

For example, if you have a +5 longsword of undead bane and you are attacking undead, is it treated as a +7 weapon?

If so, would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

In my game, yes, it did and would. It's a good idea for a pre-Epic PC to have a +4 weapon with some Bane properties on it.

Does the use of the Greater Magic Weapon spell change any of this? For example, if you have a +1 longsword of undead bane with Greater Magic Weapon bringing its "base" enhancement bonus up to +5, would the Bane enhancement still make this a +7 weapon vs. undead, and would it overcome DR/epic vs. undead?

IMC, attempting to use GMW to circumvent DR/epic results in being attacked by Blue Cheese Golems, who have DR 50/no, and immunity to spells.

Cheers, -- N