D&D 5E Enhancing "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" (Practical stuff to try at your table!)

[DaveDash]

Again, how do you know this is the case? Has your DM established this as fact?

Where are they going and how have you found that out? EDIT: Never mind. It's in Mondath's papers. Still, unless you've done some research, you might not know precisely where the castle is.

Also, something else to consider is this: the powers-that-be might be deliberately not stopping the cult's wagon train because they don't want to give away that they're on to them yet. They want to see where the cult is taking the treasure and what exactly they're planning on doing with it. Yes, as you've said, you have a pretty good idea about that - but having a good idea and having concrete proof are two different things.

I think it also makes sense that there would be cultists in influential positions who are using their political power to obfuscate and downplay the seriousness of the cult's actions. The powers-that-be might feel unable to do anything until they have more proof ... which is where the PCs come in.

That's terribly unsporting of you. I hope you will at least give your DM some warning, especially considering how green he is.

Everything you say is possible, but I don't find it very plausible. Especially the caravan situation.
And while it all is very well to state there things, it all feels very contrived.

And you're right, it actually isn't very sporting to do that, so on second thoughts I won't.

 

[DaveDash]

What would have been much cooler is if the writers had taken some inspiration from the Viking raids, or Robin Hobb books, and had the cult raid from offshore. That then removes the silliness of the whole caravan sight seeing tour along the sword coast, and puts the cult outside of the sphere of influence of many powerful realms entities.

 

[pukunui]

And while it all is very well to state there things, it all feels very contrived.

I'll grant you that this is the weakest aspect of the adventure. However, I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be - not everyone will know as much about Baldur's Gate as you do.

And you're right, it actually isn't very sporting to do that, so on second thoughts I won't.

Glad to hear it. You could still approach your DM with your concerns and see if there's any way you could help him make it feel less contrived.

What would have been much cooler is if the writers had taken some inspiration from the Viking raids, or Robin Hobb books, and had the cult raid from offshore. That then removes the silliness of the whole caravan sight seeing tour along the sword coast, and puts the cult outside of the sphere of influence of many powerful realms entities.

For what it's worth, this is Steve Winter's justification for Episode 4:

Episode 4 sends characters on a long road journey. Because The Rise of Tiamat is set in the Forgotten Realms, we wanted to let characters see some of the countryside and learn a bit about their world before they risk their lives further trying to save it. Faerûn is a colorful, endlessly interesting place, and it would be wasteful not to capitalize on that with a dollop of life on the road.

 

[DaveDash]

I'll grant you that this is the weakest aspect of the adventure. However, I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be - not everyone will know as much about Baldur's Gate as you do.

Glad to hear it. You could still approach your DM with your concerns and see if there's any way you could help him make it feel less contrived.


For what it's worth, this is Steve Winter's justification for Episode 4:

His justification is probably why it feels so incongruent to me. It's not really there to advance the story, its there to create some other goal (show off the realms, etc).

In my mind he probably should have written that in into the beginning heading to Greenest, instead of arbitrarily plonking it into the middle.

 

[pukunui]

His justification is probably why it feels so incongruent to me. It's not really there to advance the story, its there to create some other goal (show off the realms, etc).

In my mind he probably should have written that in into the beginning heading to Greenest, instead of arbitrarily plonking it into the middle.

Perhaps. If only we humans could have foresight as good as our hindsight always seems to be.

EDIT: [MENTION=6786202]DaveDash[/MENTION], do you think it would've felt less contrived if you *didn't* already know where the cultists were going? I ask because my players have only just entered the cave, so I could potentially leave the reference to Naerytar out of Mondath's journal. That way it really is necessary to follow the wagons to find out where they're going - and would give more incentive to Leosin and Ontharr - and their respective organizations - to put pressure on people like the Baldurian dukes not to interfere lest they give the game away.

 

[DaveDash]

Perhaps. If only we humans could have foresight as good as our hindsight always seems to be.

EDIT: [MENTION=6786202]DaveDash[/MENTION], do you think it would've felt less contrived if you *didn't* already know where the cultists were going? I ask because my players have only just entered the cave, so I could potentially leave the reference to Naerytar out of Mondath's journal. That way it really is necessary to follow the wagons to find out where they're going - and would give more incentive to Leosin and Ontharr - and their respective organizations - to put pressure on people like the Baldurian dukes not to interfere so as to give the game away.

Yeah it actually would feel way less silly if we didn't know where they were going.

We captured some cultists and figured it out from them and the note.

 

[pukunui]

Cool. Thanks. I think I'll do that then. The note in Mondath's chamber can just say "Everything must be freighted north", and maybe the low-level cultists only know where they're going in stages. So initially they only know they're going to Baldur's Gate. Once they get there, they're told that they're going to Daggerford. Once there, they're told they're going to Waterdeep. And so on.

Going by sea might still make more sense but I'm not sure what one can do about that. There must be some reason why the cultists chose the land route. Maybe they didn't want to risk losing all the treasure in a shipwreck? If it gets intercepted on land, it's more easily recovered than if it sinks to the bottom of the sea. Just random thoughts here ...

 

[DaveDash]

Cool. Thanks. I think I'll do that then. The note in Mondath's chamber can just say "Everything must be freighted north", and maybe the low-level cultists only know where they're going in stages. So initially they only know they're going to Baldur's Gate. Once they get there, they're told that they're going to Daggerford. Once there, they're told they're going to Waterdeep. And so on.

Going by sea might still make more sense but I'm not sure what one can do about that. There must be some reason why the cultists chose the land route. Maybe they didn't want to risk losing all the treasure in a shipwreck? If it gets intercepted on land, it's more easily recovered than if it sinks to the bottom of the sea. Just random thoughts here ...

We captured one of the important NPCs (Mondath, Rezmor, can't remember) and found out the destination. Not every group will do this, but the non-lethal melee attack rules in 5e make it pretty easy to capture NPCs.

 

[pukunui]

We captured one of the important NPCs (Mondath, Rezmor, can't remember) and found out the destination. Not every group will do this, but the non-lethal melee attack rules in 5e make it pretty easy to capture NPCs.

I think I'll make it so only Rezmir knows the full route, and she leaves messages for those bringing the loot north at each stop so they know where to go next. It makes sense, given the likelihood that some of the cultists might very well be captured and interrogated. If they don't know where their ultimate destination is, they can't give the game away.

In my game, the PCs never went into the camp. They heard about Rezmir from the straggler they interrogated but never saw her, and of course she was gone by the time they came back to the camp. I won't have them catch a glimpse of her in Baldur's Gate, as that's just asking for trouble. I reckon she should remain elusive and mysterious, always one step ahead of the PCs, until they finally catch up with her at the end.

If the PCs talk with Mondath and Cyanwrath in the cave, I'll make it so they don't know where the loot is going after it gets to Baldur's Gate (other than that it's going "north").

That should help prolong the mystery a little bit.

 

[DaveDash]

I think I'll make it so only Rezmir knows the full route, and she leaves messages for those bringing the loot north at each stop so they know where to go next. It makes sense, given the likelihood that some of the cultists might very well be captured and interrogated. If they don't know where their ultimate destination is, they can't give the game away.

In my game, the PCs never went into the camp. They heard about Rezmir from the straggler they interrogated but never saw her, and of course she was gone by the time they came back to the camp. I won't have them catch a glimpse of her in Baldur's Gate, as that's just asking for trouble. I reckon she should remain elusive and mysterious, always one step ahead of the PCs, until they finally catch up with her at the end.

If the PCs talk with Mondath and Cyanwrath in the cave, I'll make it so they don't know where the loot is going after it gets to Baldur's Gate (other than that it's going "north").

That should help prolong the mystery a little bit.

I'd also probably throw in more of a guard presence around the cultist wagons, maybe disguised (maybe there is already and we don't know about it). You could even do something like have shadows pass over the cult wagons from time to time, or perceptive players spot something large in the sky every now and again, to add a level of suspense and uncertainly to the whole scene.

Our DM didn't really telegraph that well either that the threat of the cult was being downplayed or potentially manipulated by cult insiders. It was more like everyone was acting like nothing really had happened, except Leosin etc.
Having those NPC's frustrated that people aren't listening and/or the fact that concerns have been raised, but the powers that be are taking too long to do something about it, would go a long way to keeping things sensible IMO.