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Enhancing the Knockdown Feat
- Thread starter Bassar
- Start date
bab trips
Well, this really belongs in House Rules ... we had similar problems, though more concerned with monks. We allowed anyone with the Improved Trip feat or virtual feat to add their level instead of BAB, so they would be equal to a fighter.
We also allowed a balance or tumble check instead of a trip check to resist being tripped.
In general though it's not unreasonable for a fighter to be able to trip a rogue since fighter's specialize in fighting and special fighting techniques. Rogues are dexterous, but not necessarily so good at fighting. So a skillfull trip maneuver should be effective against them, just like a fighter can better grapple them and better disarm them. That's how we see it anyway.
Well, this really belongs in House Rules ... we had similar problems, though more concerned with monks. We allowed anyone with the Improved Trip feat or virtual feat to add their level instead of BAB, so they would be equal to a fighter.
We also allowed a balance or tumble check instead of a trip check to resist being tripped.
In general though it's not unreasonable for a fighter to be able to trip a rogue since fighter's specialize in fighting and special fighting techniques. Rogues are dexterous, but not necessarily so good at fighting. So a skillfull trip maneuver should be effective against them, just like a fighter can better grapple them and better disarm them. That's how we see it anyway.
I found Knockdown less than useful. It really was a near total waste of 3 feats (Knockdown, Improved Trip and Expertise) for my 1/2Orc Rogue/Barbarian/PsiWar, taken at levels 18 and 19.
In the last 3 months of the game I was in, we ran into 4 types of creatures:
1. Mooks. There were lots of them, and they died when you hit them. Knockdown was useless.
2. Casters. They stand up, step back 5 feet, and cast a spell. This is the exact same thing they would do if you hadn't knocked them down. Knockdown was useless.
3. Flyers. Can't knock it down. Knockdown was useless.
4. Brutes. They're large or huge, and stronger than I was. Our cleric might have been able to knock them down, but there's no way a barbarian could unless they rolled about 18 points lower than I did on a d20. It only happened twice in the entire game, and I think that the last one was the DM fudging to be nice. Knockdown was useless.
In short, Knockdown was always useless. It might be a useful feat in a low magic, low level game, with lots of small, high HP, low str, groundbound targets, but the only time I've ever had it, it was junk.
In the last 3 months of the game I was in, we ran into 4 types of creatures:
1. Mooks. There were lots of them, and they died when you hit them. Knockdown was useless.
2. Casters. They stand up, step back 5 feet, and cast a spell. This is the exact same thing they would do if you hadn't knocked them down. Knockdown was useless.
3. Flyers. Can't knock it down. Knockdown was useless.
4. Brutes. They're large or huge, and stronger than I was. Our cleric might have been able to knock them down, but there's no way a barbarian could unless they rolled about 18 points lower than I did on a d20. It only happened twice in the entire game, and I think that the last one was the DM fudging to be nice. Knockdown was useless.
In short, Knockdown was always useless. It might be a useful feat in a low magic, low level game, with lots of small, high HP, low str, groundbound targets, but the only time I've ever had it, it was junk.
Monsters are strong but not 36 str pts stronger. Large creatures will get knocked down maybe 1 in 3 hits. Once something is prone everyone in the party gets +4 to hit and it either gives up a full round attack or attacks at -4 to all its attacks. I've knocked bears flat with knockdown. Maybe at level 19 its not so great but at level 9 its still working fine. Fighting a warrior of the same level as myself without knockdown or prone fighting will almost always result in my winning.
A wizard who is in a position to be knocked prone is a wizard unlikely to be alive the next round. After level 11, wizards can always cast defensively successfully.
A wizard who is in a position to be knocked prone is a wizard unlikely to be alive the next round. After level 11, wizards can always cast defensively successfully.
TheFlamingRheo
First Post
To tell you the truth I belive that the knockdown feat should not have been needed. I think that if in one hit you deal 1/10 their hp it should be an a free trip attack. But if insist on this knockdown stuff then maybe it should be made into if you deal 1/10 te opponents hp to him in one attack then they are automatically tripped. I just do not see how dealing 10 points of damage to a great wyrm red dragon and then him rolling a one on his trip save is going to make him fall over.
