D&D 5E Enlarge beyond Large

[FormerlyHemlock]

How overpowered would this spell be if it granted an additional damage die? What about doubling the damage dice? If we agree that enlarge RAW is weak, then how much bonus damage needs to be added until this spell becomes overpowered?

As far as I'm concerned, I've already been persuaded by this thread to houserule it. Enlarge now adds an extra weapon die instead of +1d4. So far the sky has not fallen.

 

[Sunseeker]

As far as I'm concerned, I've already been persuaded by this thread to houserule it. Enlarge now adds an extra weapon die instead of +1d4. So far the sky has not fallen.

Which makes the spell much more strategic in whatever you use it on, I really do like this version of it.

 

[doctorhook]

Okay, good enough for me.

Which makes the spell much more strategic in whatever you use it on, I really do like this version of it.

What did you have in mind, exactly? I'm sorta thinking this is the whole, "Half-orcs should use greataxes instead of greatswords because of damage dice," all over again.

 

[GX.Sigma]

What did you have in mind, exactly? I'm sorta thinking this is the whole, "Half-orcs should use greataxes instead of greatswords because of damage dice," all over again.

If we go with the version of enlarge posted above (double weapon damage dice, as per the DMG and MM), it would be most effective to enlarge the character with the most powerful weapon. The greataxe vs. greatsword become 2d12 and 4d6 respectively. That's an average of 13 for the axe and 14 for the sword, by the way. Half-orcs only add one extra die, so it becomes 5d12 (average 32.5) vs 9d6 (average 31.5), by my calculations.*

Normally**, it's 1d12 [6.5] vs 2d6 [7], or 3d12 [19.5] vs 5d6 [17.5] on a crit. In other words, at medium size, a greataxe-wielding half-orc is giving up 0.5 damage on a normal hit for an extra 2 damage on a critical. Good deal. An enlarged one is giving up 1 damage on a normal hit for an extra 1 damage on a critical. Bad deal.

*Those calculations assume an enlarged creature doubles their already doubled damage dice on a critical hit, which seems pretty savage.

**I have houseruled greataxes and greatswords to just use the same damage die, to avoid this whole issue.

 

[Minigiant]

Well to me, a medium sized creature enlarged to large would not be used to his bigger body and his structure would not be set up to function well (the giant ant problem"


So if you gave enlarge full features of enlargement, the spell would have to add a "clumsy" factor.

It would be easier to negate this and make the spell weaker.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The spell does seem underwhelming compared to other spells as a 2nd-level spell. That's really the issue here, regardless of the consistency implications. If you like the way the fluff works but think it is weak, you can move it down to 1st-level. If you don't like potential consistency issue, and feel the spell is weak, you can upgrade the spell.

So for the math optimizers--what mechanics are balanced as a 2nd-level spell?

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Also, actually being Large-sized can have benefits (aside from damage).

 

[doctorhook]

The spell does seem underwhelming compared to other spells as a 2nd-level spell. That's really the issue here, regardless of the consistency implications. If you like the way the fluff works but think it is weak, you can move it down to 1st-level. If you don't like potential consistency issue, and feel the spell is weak, you can upgrade the spell.

Trouble with bumping it down is whether reduce is also weak. I've seen reduce in play at my table, and it didn't seem underpowered, but that's anecdotal; mostly we haven't discussed it in this thread. Since these are two halves of the same spell, if only one half isn't broken, then any level change is likely to break the other half.

So for the math optimizers--what mechanics are balanced as a 2nd-level spell?

This, very much. Adding one more dice to each attack is what I'm going with now, until someone else convinces me of something better.

 

[Sunseeker]

Okay, good enough for me.

What did you have in mind, exactly? I'm sorta thinking this is the whole, "Half-orcs should use greataxes instead of greatswords because of damage dice," all over again.

I was actually considering using it on non-party members, the party horse for example becomes quite dangerous a size step up or the Ranger's pet panther.

 

[doctorhook]

I was actually considering using it on non-party members, the party horse for example becomes quite dangerous a size step up or the Ranger's pet panther.

Some at my table would consider the barbarian a beast companion...