Enlightened Fist Shenanigans

[Saeviomagy]

Maybe I'm missing something, but is this really so powerful? Could someone provide an example where this would be horribly abusive?

If you were a halfdragon monk enlightened fist, you could unleash a series of 7 vampiric touches on someone I suppose.

Not all that great though.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

If you were a halfdragon monk enlightened fist, you could unleash a series of 7 vampiric touches on someone I suppose.

Not all that great though.

How does that show how the class can be abused?

The Arcane Fist ability lets the character use a Stunning Fist/day to deliver a touch spell as part of an unarmed full attack action. Add Rapid Stun, multiple stuns per round.

Okay, characters have a finite amount of Stunning Fists per day, 4 per character level to be exact.

Unless I'm missing something strange elsewhere, a spellcaster can't have more than one touch spell waiting to be discharged. The ability lets the character use up one of their Stunning Fists per day to be able to deliver an already cast touch spell as part of an unarmed full attack action.

Put Rapid Stun into the mix and what you get is a character that can deliver an Arcane Fist attack (with an already cast touch spell), plus another Stunning Fist attempt (granted from the Rapid Stun feat, but still used from the total available Stunning Fists per day that the character has), plus whatever else unarmed attacks are left in the unarmed full attack action.

Broken?

Did I miss something?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Activate Arcane Strike on as high a level spell as you can afford. Use a swift action to cast a quickened shocking grasp and deliver it with an improved trip attack. Then begin your flurry of blows for the round. Spend a stunning fist attempt to make cast an empowered shocking grasp as a free action and deliver it with your unarmed strike. If you miss, attack again and discharge it. Then, spend another stunning fist attempt to do it again.

That's a grand total of your unarmed strike damage plus (effectively) 20d6 in electrical damage--possible at 12th level or so (IIRC the class correctly) plus 1d4x the level of the spell sacrificed x the number of attacks in the flurry from arcane strike (which synergizes nicely with the shocking grasps etc because, as average damage is something like [ (probability of hit + (probability or crit)x(crit multiplier-1))x (expected damage) ] increasing the probability of a hit through arcane strike also increases the expected damage from the shocking grasps.

Or substitute Vampiric Touch, touch of idiocy, or Ghoul Touch or any similar touch range spell for the empowered shocking grasp. Either way, the ability makes rapid stunning a key to two non-quickened spells plus a full attack in a round. You can still manage a quickened spell in addition to all of that.

It's not as broken as some have suggested since Rapid Stunning only allows one extra use of stunning fist (or stunning fist ability) in a round but it's plenty broken.

Maybe I'm missing something, but is this really so powerful? Could someone provide an example where this would be horribly abusive?

 

[Felonious Monk]

It's not as broken as some have suggested since Rapid Stunning only allows one extra use of stunning fist (or stunning fist ability) in a round but it's plenty broken.

Rapid Stunning
Benefit: You may use one additional stunning attack (or other special attack that counts against your daily limit of stunning attacks) per round.

Normal: You may only attempt a stunning attack (or any other special attack that counts against your daily limit of stunning attacks) once per round.

Special: A character can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So basically if the Fist takes the feat multiple times, he could add a touch spell to every attack in his full attack action...

Yes, I can see how this is overwhelming. I suppose that even at the cost of several feats, charges of Stunning Fist, and spell slots it's still rather overwhelming. Often D&D combat isn't about how much firepower you're packing, but how quickly you can bring it to bear on your enemy. This combination allows the Fist to concentrate a large portion of his resources into a very short space of time.

 

[Abstraction]

Eh. Blah.

An Enlightened Fist can use up all his stunning attacks in a single round to discharge spells after he spends a load of feats to do so? No big deal. This might be hideously overpowered in the arena setting, but doesn't strike me as all that bad in a real campaign. The Fist is going to run out of stunning attacks and/or touch spell pretty soon.

 

[Nail]

Blah?????

Hardly.

(This reminds me of the "3.0e Haste isn't broken, 'cause you run outta spells sooner" arguement. Please.)

The text of the PrC ability, plus the text of the Rapid Stinning feat are very clear. I'm sorry to say they interact perfectly. Until erratta => this combo is broken, broken, broken.

But hey: it's from two different 3.5e splatbooks. I guess it's to be expected things like this crop up.

 

[Nessin]

What's the problem here? Don't like the rule then don't modify it. The rule outright states "...an enlightened fist can spend one of her daily stunning attempts to cast..." It makes no mention of being able to use it more than once per day, or once per round, or once per anything, so just take it literally and say you can only substitute the stunning attack for a touch spell once per day. Perfect opportunity for DM ruling on the rule to say, "Take it like it says, you can only substitute one of your daily stunning attacks."

 

[Lord Pendragon]

What's the problem here? Don't like the rule then don't modify it. The rule outright states "...an enlightened fist can spend one of her daily stunning attempts to cast..." It makes no mention of being able to use it more than once per day, or once per round, or once per anything, so just take it literally and say you can only substitute the stunning attack for a touch spell once per day. Perfect opportunity for DM ruling on the rule to say, "Take it like it says, you can only substitute one of your daily stunning attacks."

You're missing the part where the feat can be taking multiple times, and its effects stack.

Eh. Blah.

An Enlightened Fist can use up all his stunning attacks in a single round to discharge spells after he spends a load of feats to do so? No big deal. This might be hideously overpowered in the arena setting, but doesn't strike me as all that bad in a real campaign. The Fist is going to run out of stunning attacks and/or touch spell pretty soon.

Then you wouldn't mind if a sorcerer could spend a feat to cast four spells in a round? After all, he's going to run out of spells rather quickly. How about a feat that allows a paladin to use up all his smiting attempts in a single attack? He'll burn through those really fast, too.

Speed is very important in D&D combat, even moreso as you rise in levels. Anything that lets you use more of your powers while expending fewer actions is very, very powerful.

 

[Abstraction]

You're missing the part where the feat can be taking multiple times, and its effects stack.Then you wouldn't mind if a sorcerer could spend a feat to cast four spells in a round?

You mean, would I let a sorceror take 4 feats to cast 4 spells a round, but no more than X number (no books) a day? Yeah, probably. Especially if he had join an otherwise lame PrC to do so.