ENNies 2003 Jugdge Application Discussion/Questions

Mark said:


I'm not sure I understand the need for it to be an exact set date for all years, rather than a standrad period of time. IMO, it might make more sense to have the deadline one month and one week prior to the first day of Gencon. It floats but it will always be the same amount of time,

If it's not a set date, then by definition it can't be a standard period of time.

The reasoning for the set date is so that everybody knows when the deadline is each year - because it's the same as it was the previous year, and the year before that. Easy to remember. No publishers saying "Oh, oops, I thought the deadline was xxxx... is it still OK if we send our entries in?" and stuff like that.
 

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Morrus said:
If it's not a set date, then by definition it can't be a standard period of time.

I'm talking about the standard period of time for review of the submissions, not a standard period of time for the submissions to be made. IMO, the former is more important to allow adequate time for a fair review by the committee members.

Morrus said:
The reasoning for the set date is so that everybody knows when the deadline is each year - because it's the same as it was the previous year, and the year before that. Easy to remember. No publishers saying "Oh, oops, I thought the deadline was xxxx... is it still OK if we send our entries in?" and stuff like that.

No matter when the date for the submissions deadline is set, some people will miss it.

As it is now, the date hasn't been set until half the submission period has elapsed and few people have found it difficult to make the effort and verify the deadline. By setting the date based on one month and one week prior to the first day of Gencon each year, the deadline is automatically set by default as soon as the dates for Gencon are announced, which if I am not mistaken, is announced by Gencon of the previous year. It seems to me that would plenty of time for anyone who cares to figure it out even if they cannot follow simple links to where you post the exact date of the deadline. Setting the date and posting it on your own pages could now happen much sooner and without any need to arbitrarily choose a date by simply taking the date of next year's Gencon, adding a week prior to it for voting, then backing it out by one month for the submission deadline and review period. No great feat there.

One of the biggest points of contention among the publishers who voiced their opinions of the process after the close of the ENnies last year was that certain publishers gained advantage simply because their products were more popular, which often reflected their advertising budgets, ability to saturate the market, and other factors not necessarily related to the actual quality of the materials submitted. While, admittedly, once products have been nominated, the voters will always vote more heavily for what they actually know. That is not something that the ENnies process can really address in an effective way.

However, the nominations process can address and effect this contention for either good or ill. If the amount of time given for reviewing of submitted materials is not standardized to an adequate length of time, there will be years in which the process is rushed, and of course this will have the effect of allowing materials to be prejudged based on what the particular members of the committee have personally purchased rather than their being able to fairly review all of the material and make their recommendations based on fair and equal review of all submitted materials.

We seem to agree that some standards being set would be helpful to the process, but you seem to feel that the deadline for submissions is more important than the amount of time needed to give fair consideration to the submissions. I was understanding what you meant, but perhaps I wasn't making myself clear with what I meant. Hopefully I've expressed it more clearly this time.
 

I'm not sure setting an early deadline just to get the nominees into the GenCon program is a good idea. Here's why.

Assuming an April 1st cutoff, the judges spend April reviewing product, and getting their nominees to you and GenCon by May 2nd. At that point, there's nearly three months until the actual awards ceremonies. While you could stagger things, and hold the voting in early June for instance (and making the judges read "who got nominated?" posts and emails for a month), and then stretch out the suspense of the winners for another two months until the ceremony, it still makes things very drawn-out and lessens the excitement of the proceedings, it seems to me.

Anyone who is voting for the awards knows the nominees, and those GenCon attendees who don't see a listing in the program could be satisfied with a flier that we could print or photocopy for distribution right at the Con.

If we want to spread the word a little, then perhaps we could contact DRAGON to see if they'd be willing to print the nominees in the August issue (which would reach subscribers and newstands in July). If the deadline for that issue was, say, June 16th, you could set a cutoff deadline at May 15th, do the judging over a month, get the nominees in on June 16th, do the voting a week or two after that, and then it would only be a month until GenCon.

Just a few ideas.
 

200+ Hours

You know I have been seeing alot of people withdraw from this due to this daunting #, 200. I spent over 200 hours working on my Neverwinter Nights module as far as learning the toolset and scripting and building. I had my module in a rough condition in around 2.5 weeks. Granted I dide't sleep much, but I seem to develop insomnia when I work on projects like that (I can survive with less than 5 hours of sleep a night with no problem). I havent had a challenging project in a while and I am hoping that I get picked as a judge so that I have something to do (besides beat Panzer Dragoon Orta again ;)). I am really looking forward to doing the reading and loosing the sleep if I get picked. I am also in the military (on a boring land billet for the USCG :( stupid Yeoman) so I know what deadlines mean. I have discussed what the commitment would require of me with my wife if I was nominated and she is happy as a pig in ... well happy. She has also seen me take on these endevors and knows that I would make a good canidate. She is also very supportive when I say things like, "Well I probably wont get picked, but if I do." she will respond with "And why wouldent they pick you, I will vote for you." (god I got lucky!) Well enough babbeling, I just wanted to talk to someone about this competition, my nervs are in a bunch about this :D
 
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Mark said:


I'm talking about the standard period of time for review of the submissions, not a standard period of time for the submissions to be made. IMO, the former is more important to allow adequate time for a fair review by the committee members.

Ah, OK, we're discussing two different subjects here.


No matter when the date for the submissions deadline is set, some people will miss it.

Of course they will. But that number will be less. There's no reason not to take a measure which will reduce a problem just because it's unlikely to be 100% effective.

As it is now, the date hasn't been set until half the submission period has elapsed and few people have found it difficult to make the effort and verify the deadline. By setting the date based on one month and one week prior to the first day of Gencon each year, the deadline is automatically set by default as soon as the dates for Gencon are announced, which if I am not mistaken, is announced by Gencon of the previous year. It seems to me that would plenty of time for anyone who cares to figure it out even if they cannot follow simple links to where you post the exact date of the deadline. Setting the date and posting it on your own pages could now happen much sooner and without any need to arbitrarily choose a date by simply taking the date of next year's Gencon, adding a week prior to it for voting, then backing it out by one month for the submission deadline and review period. No great feat there.

No, you're right. It's not difficult to figure out. But it is slightly more difficult to figure out than a set date, and my aim is for the utmost simplicity and clarity.

However, the nominations process can address and effect this contention for either good or ill. If the amount of time given for reviewing of submitted materials is not standardized to an adequate length of time, there will be years in which the process is rushed, and of course this will have the effect of allowing materials to be prejudged based on what the particular members of the committee have personally purchased rather than their being able to fairly review all of the material and make their recommendations based on fair and equal review of all submitted materials.

Short version - "some years there will be less reviewing time than others." Yep, I agree. But I can't see an April 1st date really being affected by that, because enough time is left unless Gen Con is drastically rescheduled - in which case we'd probably run into problems anyway.
 



tleilaxu said:
another request for a list of last year's judges indicating which are standing for the 2003 judging nominations...

2001:
Piratecat (not running)
EricNoah (not running)
CreativeMountain (not running, as far as I know -- he's now "Mark")
TheShadowOfMyFormerSelf (running as "Darkness")
TeflonBilly (running)

2002
EricNoah (not running)
Psion (running)
Colonel Hardisson (running)
CRGreathouse (running)
Teflon Billy (running)
 
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Michael_Morris posted some ideas on the judge's thread on how we might spiffy up the awards ceremony itself:

Sounds cool. These are a few ideas I had.

#1. I know a couple of trophy shops in Lexington KY that I might be able to get a pretty good deal on for the trophy plaques. I also think that the design of said trophy or plaque would make for a great contest

#2. I'm plan to get out my jigsaw and make an ENWorld / Ennies sign to hang behind the stage area. Again, I'm open to suggestions, but this should include the official ENWorld logo in the design...

#3. I would like to set a preshow music set that runs about 45 minutes. Also some show music tags (pieces that run only 15 seconds to cover the time it takes for the receiver of the award to get from audience area to podium and back.

Anything else guys..

1. I liked the trophies given out last year; the big d20 on a pedestal is unique and fun. I hope we wouldn't change that.

2. Quite a bit depends on the stage size we'll have; if it's anything like last year's stage, anything smaller than a 4 or 5-foot wide sign would look a bit lost in the background. Does Liquide still do the graphic design for ENworld? If so, would he want to do up a logo for the awards? I don't remember anything other than the ENworld logo being used last year, but I could be wrong.

3. Music is definitely a must. I'm not sure how much it would cost to rent a sound board from GenCon or the convention center; Eric or Morrus would know if we had to rent the sound equipment for last year or if GenCon provided it as part of their co-hosting the awards. I think we'd probably be able to bring in a laptop and patch it into the board, and get our sound cues from there? (I'm more of a lighting guy than a sound guy, myself. :) )

And for my part:

4. I know we tried to tape the show last year; perhaps we could tap the expertise of Mortality.net and see if we could stream the show live over the internet. That way, we 'd have a worldwide audience!
 

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