ENnies: Publisher feedback and suggestions sought on the future of the ENnies

[Morrus]

Incidentally, it occurs to me that a question needs to be asked. The impression I get from this thread is that publishers perceive that the ENnies don't benefit them (and thus they have no motivation to offer support for them); conversely, I have indicated that the ENnies don't benefit me.

So, we have publishers saying "If you want us to participate, here are the problems..."; on the other hand, you have me saying "If you want the ENnies to continue, here are the problems..." Both of us (me / publishers) are operating from a standpoint that the other is the one who wants the ENnies to continue.

The question, then, is do the ENnies benefit anyone? Does anyone have an interest in keeping them going? Is there a point to this discussion?

 

[Jim Butler]

Unfortunately, those suggestions, while making the ENnies great for publishers, make them pointless for EN World, in terms of both time and cost.

Judges seek products -- that's a cost increase; our problem is currently costs.

Just because the judges might have to visit their favorite local game store to jot down some notes about some products doesn't mean they're expected to buy all of them on their own. And if the awards were changed so that there was a benefit to the publishers at the time it mattered most (in that 90-day window when the product first launches), I suspect you'd have many more publishers willing to pony up the money to make sure the judges got to see their products first hand.

I don't see this as a cost at all; it's negation of all costs.

Moving EN Publishing away - that's also a cost increase (in terms of less sales); again, our problem is currently costs.

I guess it all depends on whether ENWorld is to be the neutral ground for all publishers or the home stomping grounds of EN Publishing. I suspect many more publishers would be interested in giving one of those sites their monies.

Bear in mind that the ENnies don't benefit EN World - so EN World's not going to sacrifice anything for their benefit. If something had to go, the ENnies would be the first thing, before anything else associated with the site.

What?! The ENnies drive traffic to your site, most of the publishers proudly link back to your site for their ENnies-nominated products, even more sites link back to you during the voting round. This should be even more reason for you to cause the above to happen more... not less.

 

[Jim Butler]

Incidentally, it occurs to me that a question needs to be asked. The impression I get from this thread is that publishers perceive that the ENnies don't benefit them (and thus they have no motivation to offer support for them); conversely, I have indicated that the ENnies don't benefit me.

So, we have publishers saying "If you want us to participate, here are the problems..."; on the other hand, you have me saying "If you want the ENnies to continue, here are the problems..." Both of us (me / publishers) are operating from a standpoint that the other is the one who wants the ENnies to continue.

The question, then, is do the ENnies benefit anyone? Does anyone have an interest in keeping them going? Is there a point to this discussion?

I think the ENnies are a potential benefit to everyone involved (the gamers, ENWorld, and the publishers). They could (and do) drive massive amounts of traffic to ENWorld's site.

For the publishers to get use from the awards in a business sense, they're going to have to recognize the reality of the marketplace. Awards that tip their hat at the successes from a year ago aren't really of value to publishers. By the time a year has passed, the marketplace has already decided whether the product has value or not.

Over the last few years, ENWorld has gone from a neutral ground where publishers felt comfortable spending their advertising dollars and talking with the fans, to a competitor's website where your products are second-fiddle to ENWorld's. Many publishers have stopped advertising here altogether or only do so rarely (like those that took advantage of the big price breaks of the fundraising).

The ENnies are a small part of the big picture, Morrus--but they're an essential ingredient to ENWorld's success. It's going to take some bold moves, some near-term pain for long-term viability, and a vision of the future to pull things together.

 

[Morrus]

What?! The ENnies drive traffic to your site, most of the publishers proudly link back to your site for their ENnies-nominated products, even more sites link back to you during the voting round. This should be even more reason for you to cause the above to happen more... not less.

To be honest, Jim, if there is a traffic increase during the ENnies period, it's not noticeable compared to the usual level of daily traffic. And even if there was a small spike, the time/effort payoff doesn't even out. It's kinda like what you guys are saying about the effect on sales.

I do have reasons for supporting the ENnies, of course (otherwise I wouldn't have started them in the first place), but a tangible benefit certainly isn't one of them. Not that I'd complain if there were an associated tangible benefit, naturally.

Certainly on the level of things which do actually support this site (community supporter accounts, ads, EN Publishing, online RPG store, etc.), the ENnies are squarely in the debit column. Their attraction to me is a personal one, not a business-based one - and, for publishers, I'd say much the same seems to be the case judging from this thread. So, my question still stands.

 

[Morrus]

For the publishers to get use from the awards in a business sense, they're going to have to recognize the reality of the marketplace. Awards that tip their hat at the successes from a year ago aren't really of value to publishers. By the time a year has passed, the marketplace has already decided whether the product has value or not.

Sure. I understand that; it's a difficult one. This market isn't the movie market, and you guys don't have video rentals to make you money months after the release of the initial product.

However, do you not feel that a quarterly system as you've suggested would dilute the ENnies? There'd be so many of the things given out every year that it'd be unusual not to have won one.

Over the last few years, ENWorld has gone from a neutral ground where publishers felt comfortable spending their advertising dollars and talking with the fans, to a competitor's website where your products are second-fiddle to ENWorld's. Many publishers have stopped advertising here altogether or only do so rarely (like those that took advantage of the big price breaks of the fundraising).

Agreed. But that's a Catch-22 situation. Websites aren't exactly big business, yet costs are high. Things have to be done to ensure the site's continuation, because otherwise all arguments are moot.

EN Publishing is a revenue stream for the site; it is necessary. I try to keep it as much in the background as I can, but if server fees are to be paid, the site must raise money. In essence, you're suggesting removing a revenue stream and replacing it with a drain - that's not something I can do. This site struggles as it is.

It's an unpleasant side to running what is, essentially, a fan site. One day, as you grow, you have to do these things or disappear. That said, EN Publishing is a pretty darn small little venture - it is hardly up there in the ranks of many of the people posting to this thread, including your own company.

 

[Guardians Of Order]

The question, then, is do the ENnies benefit anyone? Does anyone have an interest in keeping them going?

We certainly appreciate an awards system that, at least for the juried nomination stage, is truly a recognition of merit. I believe such nomination do benefit publishers, and we strongly support EnWorld's efforts.

 

[Ed Cha]

If the awards also accepted manuscripts along with art, then a publisher could put "Nominated for an ENnie" or "Winner of an ENnie" on the cover when going to print. Now that would help sales. The problem is how do you judge a manuscript versus a printed product. It's difficult to tell how it will turn out.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, on the timeliness of the Ennies, you might want to have the publishers send the judges proof copies rather than the proofed and finished product. The manuscripts chosen for the final cut can then be chosen a tad earlier, so the print version can read 'Ennies Fialist' or somesuch. PDFs would work well for this.

If the product has made the cut then a proofed and printed version can be given to the judges between the time of publication and the con. If the product wasn't good enough to make the cut then the judges aren't that likely to want the final product in any event.

Have stickers ready for the publishers to stick on their books at the con.

The Auld Grump

 

[Chaos Drake]

How about auctioning off signed copies of their products? Maybe even celebrity auctions. For example, a George RR Martin autographed copy of A Game of Thrones RPG or boardgame.

Or charity auction of original artwork? How much $ is required anyway?

 

[Brad Hindman]

The question, then, is do the ENnies benefit anyone?

We (Dog House Rules) have certainly benefited. The ENnie win coupled with a sale have driven a noticable spike in Sidewinder sales. But, we are probably far from typical.

1) Most potential customers don't take much notice of a Western, particularly one by a small PDF publisher. Therefore, the win has helped substantially in getting our name out in the market place.

2) Green Ronin is taking Sidewinder to print 9 months after we released it as a PDF. Therefore, the print version will be able to capitalize on the ENnies.

So, I would argue that at least for small PDF publishers the ENnies do have added value. But, that added value will only remain as long as the big publishers participate.