ENnies V - and beyond...

[Dextra]

I can answer for one of those publishers right now in my official capacity as Marketing Director. Bastion Press will not enter any awards where we are required to "pay" for the privilege of being considered as a nominee. Sending six copies of each of the three titles we submitted represented a considerable dollar investment on our part. To tell us that we have to spend an additional $10-$20 per book to help subsidize the costs of the awards show is ludricous. If that is the course that the ENnies take, then we will no longer participate.

Assuming the submitted copies for consideration were mailed directly to the judges, I only had in mind a nominal $5/publisher, plus perhaps another $1 per additional product submitted. So if a publisher submitted two books, it would cost them a whallopping $6, which would go towards defraying long distance charges, postage, paper, and a little towards the cost of the trophies. I hope that such an investment wouldn't become a barrier. I know, times are tight, and money's thin, but I spent that much buying two bottles of water at the con!

I guess I don't find the concept of an entry fee to be so distateful because I'm used to being gouged for other competitions. When my daughters dance at a Feis, they pay $5-$15 per dance, usually dancing 6-9 dances. PLUS Hound and I pay and additional $5-$12 each for the privilege of watching them do so. It boggles my mind that the minimal expenditure I had suggested is causing such a boondoggle.

It's a privilege to be considered for the award. And I'm willing to bet that the ENnies are going to be doing a huge publicity push in the media, GenCon, trade papers, FLGSs and distributors for their fifth year, so being nominated or even winning will carry a larger impact. Considering that many of the judges are also reviewers, shipping the product shouldn't be that much of an additional expense- hopefully, the publishers are already shipping them to the reviewers already anyhow, right?

ANYHOO, this is me just speculating and throwing some ideas around. If the concept of an entry fee is that distateful, I'm sure it'll be tossed out the window. The ENnies/ENWorld's got a few months yet before any decisions have to be made.

Thanks to everyone taking part thus far, I've been getting some great ideas, including an AWESOME, never-before-seen product that could be used to help raise funds.

 

[Dextra]

Which brings up another question - do we want to poll publishers to see what they do and do not object to in the awards? While ultimately the Ennies must be something we fans like and approve of, there's something to be said for making the awards publisher-firendly as well.

Personally, I think there should be a marketing type poll administered to the publishers, distributors, FLGSs, ENWorld... find out what people want. Find out how much of an impact winning an ENnie has on consumer response. Determine a way to make the process as palatable and fair to those involved. The publishers are putting out a lot of money worth of free product and shipping charges, let's make sure it's worth their while.

(When I say "let's", I mean, the ENWorld community)

 

[BastionPress_Creech]

Assuming the submitted copies for consideration were mailed directly to the judges, I only had in mind a nominal $5/publisher, plus perhaps another $1 per additional product submitted. So if a publisher submitted two books, it would cost them a whallopping $6, which would go towards defraying long distance charges, postage, paper, and a little towards the cost of the trophies. Personally, I find it laughable that such an investment looks like it could become a barrier. Are we (the publishers) *that* cheap? I know, times are tight, and money's thin, but yeesh!

I was reacting to an earlier statement of charging more money. A nominal fee such as yours could be acceptable depending on how that money was to be used and other submission requirements. Likewise, Bastion would not have an issue with making a donation provided we know exactly how the money is to be used (such as advertising in the Gen Con program book).

Personally, I think there should be a marketing type poll administered to the publishers, distributors, FLGSs, ENWorld... find out what people want. Find out how much of an impact winning an ENnie has on consumer response. Determine a way to make the process as palatable and fair to those involved. The publishers are putting out a lot of money worth of free product and shipping charges, let's make sure it's worth their while.

(When I say "let's", I mean, the ENWorld community)

Well said. One of the inherent arguments/drawbacks with awards that involve RPGs is that there really is no tangible benefit to the winners. The products that win are well past their 30-45 day sell cycle with few (if any) reorders, especially in the d20 market. And please don't try to say that the winners get a lot of exposure, because that's not something you can actually quantify unless there is an immediate spike in sales after the awards.

But there's no way in hell I'm donating money to an award show which doesn't benefit me (i.e. Joe Board Member) in the slightest. [Note, the *show* does not benefit me, although the awards themselves might if they help me with purchasing decisions for d20 products.]

Now, if the ENnies come up with a mission statement that shows me how these awards might benefit me, I may change my mind.

This is an excellent point and something that needs to be addressed. As Patrick Lawinger eluded to in an earlier post, the ENnie awards and EN World in general doesn't even blip on the average gamer's radar. I quit counting the number of times in the past year that gamers I conversed with at gaming stores and conventions who were completely clueless about the Origins Awards, ENnie Awards, EN World, or even RPG.net. Simply put, in the larger scheme, awareness needs to be increased on a grand scale so a blip does happen on the gamer's radar.

On the Saturday after the awards, we had our winning silver certificate for Torn Asunder posted at our booth. Many folks that came up didn't know about the awards and even more simply didn't care. Why? Because there is nothing that they derive a benefit from. "Oh, you won an award. That's nice. But I've never heard of it." Unlike popular TV awards, RPG awards offer nothing for the casual gamer. TV awards such as the People's Choice Awards offer even the uninterested one thing, a common point of reference. When a famous actor or actress steps up to the podium, the viewer recognizes them and may even have an opinion about them. 'Joe Gamer' and 'Josephine Gamer' don't necessarily have that same reference because of the diversity in games.

But this is an issue that is not restricted to the ENnies alone. The roleplaying game industry in general is fighting with the same problem. How do you go about making the "mainstream" gamer aware of your product (or award) when he does not frequent the Internet gaming sites, which serve as the focal point to your award or product? The quick answer is, of course, advertising. But advertising costs money and the costs involved for a national campaign promoting the awards and roleplaying in general would be enormous (just ask Wotc how much they are spending on 30th anniversay advertising). So leading back to Dextra's question, how can the awards be used to promote not only the winners, but EN World and roleplaying in general that provides a benefit to the winners? That's a $64,000 question and one that a properly run and conducted marketing study would help with. But then there's the high cost of running a study again. Hmmm no-win situation, isn't it?

 

[Umbran]

And please don't try to say that the winners get a lot of exposure, because that's not something you can actually quantify unless there is an immediate spike in sales after the awards.

Hm....

The quick answer is, of course, advertising. But advertising costs money and the costs involved for a national campaign promoting the awards and roleplaying in general would be enormous...

Perhaps. But, taking the list of winners and putting them into an ad in Dragon Magazine would be a much more attainable first step. Not being a magazine production junkie, I couldn't tell what Paizo's advertising rate card was telling me.

 

[tensen]

Cartography and Cover Art are the two most obvious ones, because in most cases that boils down to ONE single piece of art. I'd much rather have an "artist of the year" or even an "artpiece of the year" award than an "artpiece of the year - cover art" and an "artpiece of the year - cartography" award...

When you make the change of this sort.. you change it from being an award for a company... (one artist/one product in particular with the direction of the company's art director) to an award for an artist.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I just remembered another thing I wanted to see done this year but time limits kinda kicked it out of bounds.

A bloog of the various judges and their conversations back and forth between the various products. Now mind you, I'm not talking about a sheer unedited bloog because people would be 'shocked' at how we talk about some products and companies but an edited one that showed the back and forth between judges.

I figured if it was updated every couple of days that it would let people see the evolution of thinking processes as well as the different personalities of the judges and most important, would keep it in the public eye.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I figured if it was updated every couple of days that it would let people see the evolution of thinking processes as well as the different personalities of the judges and most important, would keep it in the public eye.

No offense, but I would think this would cause more ill will than understanding.

The part of the judging process that is objective is rated on grounds that most gamers (even us intellectual giants at enworld.org) don't really conciously think about. If you have to choose one product over another because of things like the little drawings in the marigins or the font or whatever, you're going to get people ticked off that you're even considering such a thing, even though it's a very relevant point.

And the subjective part of the judging process is going to get the panel death threats a-go-go.

 

[Monte At Home]

If I was a judge, I don't think I'd want a list of what I voted for made public. The only way that would work, I would think, is if there was a lot more judge turnover from year to year. Otherwise, Publisher X would see Judge Y and Judge Z on the staff one year and not even bother submitting, having seen that they didn't like her previous products. (I suppose the counterpoint is that it already could happen as it is, with judges being fairly vocal members of the boards or reviewers.)

 

[JesterPoet]

Clearly, the only answer to the funding issue is a bake sale.

Everyone loves bake sales.

 

[JoeGKushner]

If I was a judge, I don't think I'd want a list of what I voted for made public. The only way that would work, I would think, is if there was a lot more judge turnover from year to year. Otherwise, Publisher X would see Judge Y and Judge Z on the staff one year and not even bother submitting, having seen that they didn't like her previous products. (I suppose the counterpoint is that it already could happen as it is, with judges being fairly vocal members of the boards or reviewers.)

It'll probably sound naive, but I didn't even think of something like that. What if the bloog concealed the judge's names?

As far as not liking previous products though, I don't know if that's as much an issue. There are a lot of products that in a company, I can see tremendous variance. I'm not trying to pick on anyone., Let's take Company X since they have rep here. Product A had great potential, but I've got like six pages of errata on it. Only a really thick headed person would blame a judge for noting that. Now let's take Product B. Great product all around and good fun stuff, highly rated. Are you telling me that because a judge might say product A needs six pages of errata and clarification that company Xshould not send anything this year? If so, that's just damn sad.

A company should be able to tell when a product is their fault as opposed to the reader's fault. "Well, I hate writing stat blocks" is not an acceptable excuse for a company having almost every stat block in a book wrong and should be reflected in the final product's utility. That's a different statement than a judge going "Man, I sure hate Company Y. Boy do they suck. Let's make sure none of their stuff gets in." or even, "Man, I love me some super heroes. Let's make sure that everything this year is super hero dominated!"