ENnies V - and beyond...

[DaveMage]

A company should be able to tell when a product is their fault as opposed to the reader's fault.

Joe, as you know, this is an industry with some very big egos. Many are unwilling to see the faults in their own products, and see any such criticism as unfair (and then they may hold it against the whole EN World community).

Edit - there are certainly those who appreciate constructive criticism, but not everyone does.

 

[Conaill]

When you make the change of this sort.. you change it from being an award for a company... (one artist/one product in particular with the direction of the company's art director) to an award for an artist.

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid! Let's face it, an Ennie award for "Best Art (Cover)" for Grimm by Fantasy Flight Games is essentially an award for one particular piece of art by one particular artist. I would much rather fold that into a more general art category, especially since there tends to be some correlation between the quality of cover and interior art anyway. Usually the same art director (and often the same artists) are involved in all of these categories.

I realize my suggestion to reduce the art & layout categories from 4 to 3 is somewhat controversial. As Psion pointed out, it's always much easier to just add yet another category than to remove one...

 

[Crothian]

Ya, but cover art is a long tradition in the RPG industry. Cover art has played in an important role in attracting customers and giving players a sence of adventure. As I look back over some of the great covers of the old days I satill get chills as the covers have so much meaning to me from using them and always seeing the grand pictures.

But that's just how I feel, I really like good cover art.

 

[Krug]

Clearly, the only answer to the funding issue is a bake sale.

Everyone loves bake sales.

Flumph muffin!!

 

[jaldaen]

A friend unexpectedly came into town this weekend and so the weekend time put aside for comment has been usurped... however I might have some time later today to start a new thread over in the publishers' forum that focuses on the suggestions members have made thus far.

Thanks and keep those suggestions coming!

 

[Umbran]

however I might have some time later today to start a new thread over in the publishers' forum that focuses on the suggestions members have made thus far.

I don't think that's a good place for it. The publishers aren't run by the publishers. The awards are for them, but they are by the fans out here in General. While I think the publishers ought to be in on the discussion, this is more about what the masses out here want, isn't it?

If you need to tuck it out of the way, perhaps the Meta Forum would be better.

 

[Nisarg]

I find that comment highly insulting. Origins never has been (to my knowledge) and never will be a fan award. Whatever the ENnies becomes, it will remain an award decided by the fans and supported primarily by them.

Well, only so long as the judges don't "fix" the awards so that the games/products nominated are not what the public would have supported; ie. that they intentionally exclude popular choices for reasons of ideology.

Given that you seem to be excessively concerned with making sure the Ennies aren't too much about D20 anymore, and given that you are suggesting giving 3 of the five Judge positions to Rpg.net (a place that is largely out of touch with the gaming public and has an inherent anti-d20 bias) I could easily see the nomination process turn into a farce, leaving the voting public to have to choose between a bunch of obscure nominees while their real choice for game of the year (almost inevitably a d20 product) would be neglected by having not been nominated.

I think while you are so worried about making sure the ennies aren't too-D20 centric, you should pause to consider how quickly things could move to the other extreme: D20 is probably over 50% of the gaming market, and if the awards are given a kind of "affirmative action" treatment, they could quickly lose all relevance to reality.


Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

Independent Project: Sort of like the Indy film project, this award goes to a product produced without the backing of a large or even an established small publisher. I'd imagine this would be most often carried by books where the author self printed. Were this award around in 2003, Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe would have taken it since that was XP's first product and largely a self imprint at that.

How do you define independent? In principle I don't disagree with this concept, and better that smaller niche games have their own section than steal positions from "best RPG" (ie. something like "My life with master", which many people like, should nevertheless not end up stealing a useless slot in the Best RPG section because that award should be reserved for games with a sufficiently large market presence to actually have a sense of realism).
However, in practice, the concern would be that you didn't have companies that were actually very established taking the credit. You'd have to be careful to have very clear definitions here.

Nisarg

 

[Nisarg]

Splitting the Judging: Groups such as the Forge, already have their own awards for the Indies. rpg-awards.com Perhaps a segmented judging population. ENWorld people doing the d20 categories, Forge nominated doing the Indie segment of products, Rpg.net or one of the others handling the non-d20/non-ogl segment.

This is a horrific idea. Besides implying that somehow Enworld judges would lack the intelligence or awareness to do anything other than D20, it woudl guarantee that the "indie game" would ALWAYS be a Forge product, and would create a pretty serious havoc in the general non-d20 section too.

I mean, seriously, are Enworlders that ashamed of themselves, that they really think themselves incapable of being good and fair judges? Is there such a sense of "winner's guilt" that we will cut ourselves off at the knees and turn the Ennies into a totally unrealistic pc-inclusion party rather than the currently accurate reflection of the market that it is?

If we dole out judge positions to the Forge, well.. we might as well give it straight to Ron Edwards, cause he's the one who'll get it (or his chosen toadie). If we dole out positions to Rpg.net, just watch the wars that will go on there as they split into power voting blocks to make sure they can rig the awards in favour of any given voting block's pet game. The only end result will be that it will in no way reflect the reality of what the public actually plays and appreciates.

Nisarg

 

[jaldaen]

I don't think that's a good place for it. The publishers aren't run by the publishers. The awards are for them, but they are by the fans out here in General. While I think the publishers ought to be in on the discussion, this is more about what the masses out here want, isn't it?

The thread in the publisher's forum is not actually meant to replace this one but run alongside it from a different perspective... the reason for this is b/c I told the publishers at Gen Con that there would a thread for them to make comments on this year's and suggestions on next year's ENnies in the publishers' forum and I think it wise to listen to not only the fans here on ENWorld, but also the publishers as both should have their needs addressed in order to make the ENnies the best RPG awards ceremony that it can be.

Thanks though for making me clarify what was meant by my comment as I did not mean to imply shutting down this thread just placing a boiled down version in the publishers' forum for their convienence.