Ensemble Point Buy: Insane or Viable idea?

[Kichwas]

Two ideas I'm floating around and I want to see what people think of them. Are they viable or absurd or somewhere in between?

Ensemble-Style Stat generation:

Here's an idea from the 7th Sea RPG's GM Guide:

The point buy chart seen in Core Rulesbook II, pages 19-20 is used to purchase stats. However the players are in control of how many points they get.
The initial characters use the chart below:

[color=white]
            # of  --- Points --- Points per
          Players     Given  ---   Player
             2          57          28 1/2
             3          85          28 1/3
             4         111          27 3/4
             5         138          27 6/10
             6         165          27 1/2
             7         192          27 3/7
             8         219          27 3/8
[/color]

No player can take less than 25 points and no player can take more than 30.
The idea behind these guidelines is to get all the PCs to be close but not identical in stat points.
This system forces the players to get together and discuss character creation; hopefully working up a little teamwork in the process.



Idea 2
Here's a totally different Idea I've been floating around:

Replacement characters use a system designed to discourage casual switchouts:
Calculate the average point value of the party's PCs then add 1 to find out your base points. Each new PC made has one less point than the last one. Even if from a PC death (the very first replacement PC has the same points as the initial PCs). HOWEVER in finding this average point value don't take stat gains from leveling out of the cost.
As they go up in levels there are more points for that next PC, but as PCs come in to replace those points go down.
In order to keep the number 'in check' players should avoid replacing PCs more often than about once every 4 levels (plus or minus a bit due to stats above 14 being worth more than 1 point).

Example: at level 1 the average member of the party was built on 27 points. By level 4 2 players have a 19 stat and two now have 17's. We'll assume for this system that anything over an 18 is still worth 3 points per stat point (to keep things from getting out of hand).
They now have added 12/4 or 3 points to the average. Any new PC gets (30 1) - 1 or 30 points. The PC after that gets 29, the next gets 28, then 27, and so on. If the new PC starts at level 4 they should still get their level 4 stat point.
It will go down fast. But not too fast if PCs are only replaced from character death and logical party splits in a normal game.
Chances are that by the time the PCs hit level 4 one or two PCs will have died or left anyway. Chances are also that they won't all raise their prime stat at level 4 enough to shoot the average up by 3.
This system strongly discourages players from switching out PCs casually as each switch out hurts all of the players' future characters.

 

[twjensen]

second idea

I like the second idea.

The first one seems a little unwieldy.

 

[Kichwas]

That's interesting.

I was thinking the opposite.
That the second would be too unwieldy, but the first might get a player revolt.

 

[Crothian]

Why in the first one do you get less points on average for more people in the group? It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how it'll work in practice. Obviously, it depends on the group and how well they get along.

The second one looks okay, but I've yet to have people get killed. We don't like to switch characters. My group has always made characters for the long haul.

 

[bloodymage]

"Out with the bathwater!"

IMHO, I don't like either idea. A new fellow in my group asked me the other day whether I limited the sum total of the ability scores for the party, or something like that. I didn't know what he was talking about. He explained it was something his last DM did. I told him that adventurers in my world were as wide and varied as people in our own world. I can't imagine "smoothing out" a party's stats!

I mean, isn't it fun to have to protect the rather dense little rogue from his own mistakes? Or how about the clumsy wizard? I realize you can accomplish the same thing with a cap on the total value of party stats, but I'm not about to introduce yet another arbitrary element into character generation. Right now, I have one ranger who had absolutely incredible rolls. If I remember, his lowest score was 15 and there was only one! Now I was ready to cry fault, but they were legitimate rolls. I happen to have an extremely gifted ranger in my world. I also have a rogue (thief) who would probably make a better clown! So what if they're in the same party? I say the die rolls themselves tend to average out over several characters, why try to force them to?

Anyway, kind of a ramble, but that's my 2 coppers!