Knowledge Sinkhole
First Post
I'm trying to figure out the best way to use the Command Undead feat to enslave an intelligent undead monster as a long term minion.
I'm looking at doing this as a Wizard- Necromancy/Undead arcane school. The level requirement isn't specific, though for the purposes of this thought experiment I'm trying to figure out how to do this at as low a level as possible. Once you get into the mid teens, throwing gold/spells/items/etc at the problem makes it less interesting. So, let's assume character level < 10, ideally 7.
With the Command Undead feat (free at level 1 via Necromancy school) and the Undead Master feat, it should be possible to command up to your Wizard level + 4 HD worth of undead; at level 7, that allows you up to control up to 11 HD of undead. This opens up a surprisingly large amount of intelligent undead as possible thralls.
I'll leave the details of the initial command undead success to the imagination of the reader. Let's just assume that, somehow, you've found an intelligent undead you want to enslave, and have managed to get your Command Undead off.
You now have until the next day to ensure that your minion remains loyal to you.
First off, let's make it harder for your minion to make its daily saving throw. Because it has to obey you, you can make it voluntarily give up its saving throws against any and all spells you may cast on it before then. Using two invocations of Bestow Curse, using the RAW, you can give your minion a permanent -6 to its Wisdom, and -4 to its saving throws. With a reasonable DM, you could also convince him to make a custom curse that would apply those penalties only to resisting YOUR spells and abilities, so you don't have to weaken your thrall unnecessarily against other foes.
That should give your thrall a net -7 penalty to making its will save. Unfortunately, no matter how low this might make your thrall's will save, he will always have a 5% chance of making his save by rolling a natural 20. As a note: a nice custom curse you could try pitching to your DM might be forcing your thrall to always reroll any natural 20 it rolls resisting your command undead. Whether that's on par with the other Bestow Curse powers is up to your DM, of course.
So- no matter how much you penalize your thrall's will save, 5% of he will make his save and free himself from your command. If he needs to roll a 20, this means, on average, he will break your command in 20 days. If he needs to roll a 19, 10 days. An 18, 6.7 days. A 17, 5 days. Clearly, then, something must be done to handle that eventuality.
If you keep your thrall under a constant Command Undead spell (in addition to your Command Undead feat), you gain some insurance that it will not turn on you immediately. At 7th level, your Command Undead spell will need to be renewed every 7 days- hardly onerous. Here, things get interesting. According to a strict reading of the RAW, the Command Undead spell only a) prevents the undead from attacking you, and b) makes its attitude towards you friendly. If you wish to make it do something it wouldn't normally do, you need to make an opposed Charisma check. It is unclear how this behavior might overlap with your Command Undead feat. If you try to use your Command Undead spell to persuade your thrall to submit to the control of your Command Undead feat, for instance, your DM is unlikely to let that fly (otherwise you've permanently enslaved the thrall- no further work necessary. Just use your spell to make the thrall submit to the next use of the feat, and use the feat to make it submit to the next use of the spell). You might, however, be able to use the spell to get your thrall to remain close to you without attacking you or your allies. This would, at the very least, let you try to use your feat anew on the now-free thrall. With all of the permanent curses you've laid upon your thrall, this should at least provide you with a much easier challenge than the original capture. Of course, it's also likely that your DM will rule that new command undead attempts will count as 'threatening' the undead, which will break your command undead spell.
You may be able to further improve your chances of recapturing your thrall by using your command undead spell to lure it into some kind of containment; corporeal undead might be easily bound by even a rudimentary cage made from a strong material. Incorporeal thralls might require stronger measures; any advice others may have is welcome.
Custom magic items may also help control a thrall, though the the efficacy and affordability of such items is dependent upon your DM.
Can anyone recommend further measures one might use to further ensure the permanent control of an undead thrall? RAW that are not dependent upon DM interpretation are preferred, but spells/abilities/items that could be turned toward this end with some creativity are welcome.
I'm looking at doing this as a Wizard- Necromancy/Undead arcane school. The level requirement isn't specific, though for the purposes of this thought experiment I'm trying to figure out how to do this at as low a level as possible. Once you get into the mid teens, throwing gold/spells/items/etc at the problem makes it less interesting. So, let's assume character level < 10, ideally 7.
With the Command Undead feat (free at level 1 via Necromancy school) and the Undead Master feat, it should be possible to command up to your Wizard level + 4 HD worth of undead; at level 7, that allows you up to control up to 11 HD of undead. This opens up a surprisingly large amount of intelligent undead as possible thralls.
I'll leave the details of the initial command undead success to the imagination of the reader. Let's just assume that, somehow, you've found an intelligent undead you want to enslave, and have managed to get your Command Undead off.
You now have until the next day to ensure that your minion remains loyal to you.
First off, let's make it harder for your minion to make its daily saving throw. Because it has to obey you, you can make it voluntarily give up its saving throws against any and all spells you may cast on it before then. Using two invocations of Bestow Curse, using the RAW, you can give your minion a permanent -6 to its Wisdom, and -4 to its saving throws. With a reasonable DM, you could also convince him to make a custom curse that would apply those penalties only to resisting YOUR spells and abilities, so you don't have to weaken your thrall unnecessarily against other foes.
That should give your thrall a net -7 penalty to making its will save. Unfortunately, no matter how low this might make your thrall's will save, he will always have a 5% chance of making his save by rolling a natural 20. As a note: a nice custom curse you could try pitching to your DM might be forcing your thrall to always reroll any natural 20 it rolls resisting your command undead. Whether that's on par with the other Bestow Curse powers is up to your DM, of course.
So- no matter how much you penalize your thrall's will save, 5% of he will make his save and free himself from your command. If he needs to roll a 20, this means, on average, he will break your command in 20 days. If he needs to roll a 19, 10 days. An 18, 6.7 days. A 17, 5 days. Clearly, then, something must be done to handle that eventuality.
If you keep your thrall under a constant Command Undead spell (in addition to your Command Undead feat), you gain some insurance that it will not turn on you immediately. At 7th level, your Command Undead spell will need to be renewed every 7 days- hardly onerous. Here, things get interesting. According to a strict reading of the RAW, the Command Undead spell only a) prevents the undead from attacking you, and b) makes its attitude towards you friendly. If you wish to make it do something it wouldn't normally do, you need to make an opposed Charisma check. It is unclear how this behavior might overlap with your Command Undead feat. If you try to use your Command Undead spell to persuade your thrall to submit to the control of your Command Undead feat, for instance, your DM is unlikely to let that fly (otherwise you've permanently enslaved the thrall- no further work necessary. Just use your spell to make the thrall submit to the next use of the feat, and use the feat to make it submit to the next use of the spell). You might, however, be able to use the spell to get your thrall to remain close to you without attacking you or your allies. This would, at the very least, let you try to use your feat anew on the now-free thrall. With all of the permanent curses you've laid upon your thrall, this should at least provide you with a much easier challenge than the original capture. Of course, it's also likely that your DM will rule that new command undead attempts will count as 'threatening' the undead, which will break your command undead spell.
You may be able to further improve your chances of recapturing your thrall by using your command undead spell to lure it into some kind of containment; corporeal undead might be easily bound by even a rudimentary cage made from a strong material. Incorporeal thralls might require stronger measures; any advice others may have is welcome.
Custom magic items may also help control a thrall, though the the efficacy and affordability of such items is dependent upon your DM.
Can anyone recommend further measures one might use to further ensure the permanent control of an undead thrall? RAW that are not dependent upon DM interpretation are preferred, but spells/abilities/items that could be turned toward this end with some creativity are welcome.
