Entangle - A Little Too Strong For A 1st Level Spell?

[Nail]

I...that I could now simply fireball a 5' square.

BTW, you can't just hit one 5-ft square. Mimimum radius on a fireball is 5-ft, for a 10 ft square on the ground.

frankthedm, could you post one of your super-cool graphics, showing this for a fireball burst 15 feet in the air?

 

[IcyCool]

Shape spell feat has lots of uses. Lots. This takes nothing away from that.

It certainly makes Shape Spell less attractive to me. YMMV.

 

[frankthedm]

BTW, you can't just hit one 5-ft square. Mimimum radius on a fireball is 5-ft, for a 10 ft square on the ground.

frankthedm, could you post one of your super-cool graphics, showing this for a fireball burst 15 feet in the air?

I don't know how to count those diagonal squares for certain. I posted a guess at a 3-d fireball earlier in the area effect topic.

 

[IcyCool]

BTW, you can't just hit one 5-ft square. Mimimum radius on a fireball is 5-ft, for a 10 ft square on the ground.

Ah, my bad.

At any rate, are you basically saying that for all intents and purposes, we can treat the given radius of a spell as a maximum? And that we can adjust down from there however we see fit? If so, that adds a significant amount of versatility to spells.

Does this happen often in your games? Is it about to?

 

[Nifft]

Now we know why all dungeon ceilings are 10 ft. high. To prevent exactly this sort of silliness.

Gah! -- N

 

[satori01]

Honestly, given the opportunity, I think my character would use the smaller area more often than the current version. I know that doesn't seem logical, but really the area is TOO big, and I always seem to catch my allies in the spread, or mess up a charging or melee tactic that someone was planning on using, or allow for opponents to escape.

Ding, Ding, Ding. I'm starting to think that Mistwell and I are separated D&D twins, as our opinions on rules issues seem to converge more often than not. Perhaps it is a regional thing, (Mistwell I believe lives in the Los Angeles area as well), and we have similar style games.

The large AOE is a detriment to the spell for actual use... you are likely to also hit your friends. In 3.0 module the Sunless Citadel the fact the boss Druid cast Entangle probably saved our Hit Point depleted group.
The Animal Companion and Summoned Animals/Twig Blights got stuck in the AoE. As a Rogue I plinked away with my bow, and healed myself up, slowly moving towards the Druid. The Monk made her saving throw and with Expeditious Retreat spell from the Sorcerer was able to move quickly through the AoE.
Our Half Orc Barbarian/Cleric had Resistance up, made his saving throw and ran. Next round he missed his saving throw, raged and was able to make his Str Check. The Rogue/Sorcerer also was able to make the Reflex Saving throw.

Now Sunless Citadel was a widely played module, being the first released for 3.0. I think it would be very informative to see how many parties were subjected to Entangle and how much of an impact the spell had on them. This would mitigate the theoretical terrain conundrum of the debate.

 

[frankthedm]

Ah, my bad.

At any rate, are you basically saying that for all intents and purposes, we can treat the given radius of a spell as a maximum? And that we can adjust down from there however we see fit?

Not so much with most spells, but entangle mostly effects things fairly close to the ground. Thus dialing the radius is easy since there is no danger of burning someone's face off.

 

[satori01]

from SRD:
Spread: Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can’t see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect.

In terms of AoE it will still stay the about the same (at least 40') as the effect is going to need to touch the ground to effect the plants....unless you want to give a bonus to reflex saves for partial AoE. The Sprite Magister in my group would often cast Sorcerous Blast to end at medium height, just above his tiny size.

 

[frankthedm]

from SRD:
Spread: Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can’t see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect.

In terms of AoE it will still stay the about the same (at least 40') as the effect is going to need to touch the ground to effect the plants....unless you want to give a bonus to reflex saves for partial AoE. The Sprite Magister in my group would often cast Sorcerous Blast to end at medium height, just above his tiny size.

This text does not affect air bursting in any way. you emphisised a part that only has bearing if there are corners the effect needs to get around. That text does not prevent counting diagonally when there are no corners to circumvent.

Speaking of sprites, here is the side view of that air burst fireball Nail requested.

 

[Nail]

Speaking of sprites, here is the side view of that air burst fireball Nail requested.

Perfect. Thanks!

You are like unto a God (of Graphic Sprites) to me.