[Epic] Arcane casters creating divine spells?

[andargor]

I'm confused by the following passage:

An epic spell developed by an arcane spellcaster is arcane, and an epic spell developed by a divine spellcaster is divine. A character who can cast both divine and arcane epic spells chooses whether a particular spell he or she develops will be arcane or divine. If that same caster uses the heal or life seed in an epic spell, that spell is always considered divine.
...
*Spellcasters without at least 24 ranks in Knowledge (religion) or Knowledge (nature) may not use heal or life spell seeds.

(emphasis mine)

1) Does this mean than an arcane caster can create a divine epic spell by using the life and heal seeds, if she has the proper skills?

2) Or does that pertain to spellcasters that have both arcane and divine classes? ("If that same caster...")

In any case, the Epic Spellcasting feat only requires the appropriate skills plus 9th level arcane OR 9th level divine spells.

Does this mean that in case 2, a wizard with only one level in any divine class that qualifies for Epic Spellcasting because of 9th level arcane spells, could create a divine epic spell using life and heal if she has the appropriate skills? Or does she also need to have access to 9th level divine spells to do so?

Andargor

 

[FEADIN]

Originally Posted by SRD 3.5
An epic spell developed by an arcane spellcaster is arcane, and an epic spell developed by a divine spellcaster is divine. A character who can cast both divine and arcane epic spells chooses whether a particular spell he or she develops will be arcane or divine. If that same caster uses the heal or life seed in an epic spell, that spell is always considered divine.
...
*Spellcasters without at least 24 ranks in Knowledge (religion) or Knowledge (nature) may not use heal or life spell seeds.

They speak about the same caster who can cast Epic spells in the divine and arcane classes, he must be able to cast 9th level spells in both classes.
The precision about the 24 ranks is a limitation to take the seed but it's strange because in the seed description they speak about knowledge arcana!?

SEED: HEAL
Conjuration (Healing)
.......An epic caster with 24 ranks in Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (nature), or Knowledge (religion) can cast a spell developed with a special version of the heal seed that flushes negative energy into the subject, healing undead completely but causing the loss of all but 1d4 hit points in living creatures if they fail a Fortitude saving throw.

 

[andargor]

Originally Posted by SRD 3.5
They speak about the same caster who can cast Epic spells in the divine and arcane classes, he must be able to cast 9th level spells in both classes.
The precision about the 24 ranks is a limitation to take the seed but it's strange because in the seed description they speak about knowledge arcana!?

That's the thing, they don't say that she needs both 9th-level arcane and divine spells. Why mention it at all, since Epic Spellcasting has both the spell prerequisites and rank prerequisites anyway? Wierd.

Ditto.

Andargor

 

[Teemu]

1) Does this mean than an arcane caster can create a divine epic spell by using the life and heal seeds, if she has the proper skills?

No. A caster who can only cast arcane epic spells always creates arcane epic spells. If that caster doesn't have at least 24 ranks in Knowledge (religion) (and instead has the required ranks in arcana), they can only use the limited version of Life and Heal seeds. The limited version of Life seed is the one that can animate objects, and the limited version of the Heal seed is the one that heals undead and causes negative effects on living creatures.

If that same caster did have 24 ranks in Knowledge (religion), they could fully employ both the Heal and Life seeds. Epic spells created by this arcane caster would be arcane, even if the spells used the healing and resurrecting aspects of the Heal and Life seeds.

2) Or does that pertain to spellcasters that have both arcane and divine classes? ("If that same caster...")

It pertains to a caster who can cast both divine and arcane epic spells. If such caster were to develop an epic spell that uses the Heal or Life seed, that spell would automatically be divine.

Do I make any sense?

 

[andargor]

No. A caster who can only cast arcane epic spells always creates arcane epic spells. If that caster doesn't have at least 24 ranks in Knowledge (religion) (and instead has the required ranks in arcana), they can only use the limited version of Life and Heal seeds. The limited version of Life seed is the one that can animate objects, and the limited version of the Heal seed is the one that heals undead and causes negative effects on living creatures.

If that same caster did have 24 ranks in Knowledge (religion), they could fully employ both the Heal and Life seeds. Epic spells created by this arcane caster would be arcane, even if the spells used the healing and resurrecting aspects of the Heal and Life seeds.


It pertains to a caster who can cast both divine and arcane epic spells. If such caster were to develop an epic spell that uses the Heal or Life seed, that spell would automatically be divine.

Do I make any sense?

Aha! I think you hit Nail on the head. Err... the nail on the head.

How easy to skip the word "epic" when used so many times.

So:

1) Epic Arcane Caster, with Epic Spellcasting, creates Arcane spells. If she has the proper skill ranks, can use heal or life, these are the limited forms, epic spell stays Arcane.

2) Epic Divine Caster, with Epic Spellcasting, creates Divine spells, regardless. Prerequisites for heal and life already in Epic Spellcasting.

3) Epic Arcane Caster, with Epic Spellcasting, with some non-epic divine spellcasting ability: As Arcane Caster.

4) Epic Arcane AND Epic Divine Caster, with Epic Spellcasting: can choose between 1 and 2, except heal or life makes Divine spells only.

Did I get it right?

Andargor

 

[Teemu]

1) Epic Arcane Caster, with Epic Spellcasting, creates Arcane spells. If she has the proper skill ranks, can use heal or life, these are the limited forms, epic spell stays Arcane.

This caster can use the limited versions of the two seeds no matter what, since they automatically have 24 ranks in Knowledge (arcana) (fulfills the requirement to employ the limited versions).

Otherwise, yes.