Epic Attacks

[Li Shenron]

In ELH it is stated that BAB does not progress after 20th level, and instead there is an Epic Attack Bonus progression which is the same for every class.

It is not clear to me what happens to multiclass character. Let's say you are a Ftr10/Wiz10, and then you get your 21st level and become an Epic PC. Do you already have to use the Epic Attack progression, or can you "complete" your Fighter level up to 20th with the Fighter BAB progression?

The odd to me it's that in this case if you haven't got 4 attacks before 20th level overall, you're never going to get them!

In the other case, isn't it much better to multiclass for ex. Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian so you reach +60 in 60 levels before using the slower progression?

Confused...

 

[LordAO]

In ELH it is stated that BAB does not progress after 20th level, and instead there is an Epic Attack Bonus progression which is the same for every class.

It is not clear to me what happens to multiclass character. Let's say you are a Ftr10/Wiz10, and then you get your 21st level and become an Epic PC. Do you already have to use the Epic Attack progression, or can you "complete" your Fighter level up to 20th with the Fighter BAB progression?

You go by character level. After 20th level, regardless of the classes you had before that, you now get +1 AB per two levels. Once you are 21st level, ragardless of class(es) you are epic and must use the epic attack and save progression and no longer get any attack bonus or saves from any class levels you gain.

The odd to me it's that in this case if you haven't got 4 attacks before 20th level overall, you're never going to get them!

That's the exact reason many people don't like how they did it. This also applies to saving throws. I recommend you min/max your attack bonus and saving throws before you reach epic levels, since you won't get another chance and those choices are permanent.

 

[Grazzt]

In the other case, isn't it much better to multiclass for ex. Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian so you reach +60 in 60 levels before using the slower progression?

Confused...

BAB wouldn't be +60. It would be +40. It would be +20 (at 20th character level) and then after that, use the Epic progression for the remainder of the class levels. Your total BAB (before Str, magic items, etc.) would be +40 (20 for your first 20 class levels and +20 for 40 epic levels).

Remember, its CHARACTER level, not CLASS level that determines when you begin using the Epic Attack progression.

 

[Crothian]

I don't know why people don't like it. Sure you get the worst BAB, but you do get the best saving throws in all three. Improving every other level is the good saving throw progression. So, bad attack, great saving throws. Balance.

 

[Li Shenron]

I haven't decided yet if I like it or not... I will once someone I know gets Epic!

It sound a little odd that if I become a 20th level fighter I have 4 attacks, but if I first become 20th level sorcerer and later start as fighter, I won't ever really collect the fighter's goodies (feats apart, of course).

Xp penalties for multiclassing drive you to spread your levels even on the classes you have, but still when you are Ftr10/Sor10 your number of attacks won't ever be 4 even if you take 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 more levels of fighter.

I am perfectly ok for the EAB progression from Ftr 21st on, but let my PC complete his Fighter training un to 20th!!

 

[Grazzt]

Not having 4 attacks per round isnt really that bad. It is balanced by allowing epic spellcasters access to epic-level spells and other cool stuff.

 

[Xeriar]

Not having 4 attacks per round isnt really that bad. It is balanced by allowing epic spellcasters access to epic-level spells and other cool stuff.

The issue is not that, it's the fighter 20 / wizard 20 versus wizard 20 / fighter 20 problem.

Or for those that claim that 'never happens', paladin 20 / sorcerer 20, versus sor 20 / pal 20, or clr 20 / wiz 20 versus wiz 20 / clr 20.

Or for the ubertwink, fighter 2 / monk 18. +36 saves all, four attacks...

The only balancing factor is that the first class gets an extra three levels worth of skills. Whoopdee-freaking-doo!

 

[ATO_DM]

The odd to me it's that in this case if you haven't got 4 attacks before 20th level overall, you're never going to get them!

Ummm.... That doesn't make logical sense to me. If this were the case I think it would case most players to want to play Fighters until Level 20 then multiclass to gain spells.

I would think that characters would still be able to eventually gain the +20/+15/+10/+5 attacks.

Now, I could understand the purpose of Epic attack progression being to stop characters from gaining more attacks beyond the four gained for having a +20 BAB.

If that isn't the case this just seems to be yet another piece of evidence showing that D+D will simply become perpetually stupider, less thought out, filled with loopholes. AND, eventually forcing the release of a 4th Edition to fix all the glaring problems with 3rd Edition. Causing excited fans to create another messageboard community to be created which will hail the achievements of 4th ed., causing enourmous demand for the books. The publishers will churn out sourcebooks monthly until the system starts to become less and less well thought out. Causing the release of a 5th edition and...... oh no, my head has exploded with the realization of being caught in a neverending cycle of capitalist evil.

 

[Berk]

I think people just most likely want to be uber twinky. I mean come on, is it all that important to get 4 attacks a round? hell if ya want 4 attacks a round, take some feats and wield two weapons and while you are at it make one of the weapons have the speed ability, well now you got 2+1+1+1=5!!!!!!!!!
Hey 5 is more then 4, so it must be better right? Come on people, it's a game with rules and mechanics. I don't think the bab with the multiclassing is all bad, it's what you pay for having your character divide their attention between 2+ trades. And besides, the benefits from the other class more then make up for the loss of attacks.

 

[LordAO]

Oh no, not again! If I said something that got this snowball rolling again, please disregard it. The truth is some people don't like it, some do. There's always rule-0. Like I said before, careful planning will eliminate much of the problem. I wish it wasn't necessary, but it helps alot. Just make sure you're getting the best save and attack bonus combo that you want from the classes you have. If you don't like it, change it. It's your game, do what you will have the most fun doing. But please, no more fighting over this issue. No one side will ever win and it will just lead to more mudslinging like it did on the other thread. I believe the question that was asked has been answered.