Epic BAB

[Caliber]

Actually Crothian, I don't think thats how it works.

If I recall, (and I don't have my books so I could be off) if you have an +ECL race you become Epic when your ECL is >20.

But all that means is that you gain access to Epic feats with your Character Feats. You still progress along the Core Class Charts until you have 20 levels worth of Core Classes. Its only then that you begin to employ the EAB and ESB (thats Epic Attack Bonus and Epic Save Bonus)

As for the whole Fighter20/Wizard20 Wizard20/Fighter20 ... well thats a whole nother argument.

 

[Crothian]

Actually Crothian, I don't think thats how it works.

If I recall, (and I don't have my books so I could be off) if you have an +ECL race you become Epic when your ECL is >20.

I figure if you get epic feats, you are treated as epic in all regards. I may be wrong, I'm not the epic expert around here.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I prefer setting the number of attacks to cap at 4 (5 for Monks).

 

[Tyberious Funk]

The real arguemnet cam when you take 20 levels of Wizard followed by 20 levels of fighter, and compare that to a character who did that in reverse. One has 4 attacks, the other 2 even though their levels and classes are perfectly equal.

This is what happens when you take a game system that was essentially designed to model levels 1 to 20, and then attempt to bash it into place so it will model levels 20+.

The designers have done their best, but ultimately there is a lot of wierdness that kicks in at Epic levels, simply because the 3E system wasn't really designed to handle levels 20+.

There has been more than the occasional raised eyebrow in our party as we each cross the threshhold to Epicness.

 

[Xeoble]

I think i'd prefer to have everything advance at the same pace as normal, except spells and feats. I like the epic spell idea and i think that the epic feats are really cool, although, i wouldn't allow a wizard 20/fighter 1 to get his bonus feat as epic, just the lvl 21 feat. I think that would be a lot more enjoyable

 

[ruleslawyer]

Actually, retaining epic save progression as set forth in the ELH is really important.

Allowing save progression to advance as normal is a BAD idea for everyone but monks, because (just like the book already says) it just widens the gulf between good and poor saves. Your fighters will be VERY unhappy when spellcasters start throwing Will-save-or-die spells at 40th level, when their base Will save is +12 while their base Fort save is +24!

 

[Mordane76]

Read the material on Epic levels -- a Wiz20/Ftr1 can't take his fighter bonus feats as epic; he can't take epic feats as fighter bonus feats until his Ftr level is 20+, no matter what his character level is. Bonus feats for all classes work that way -- you can't take epic bonus feats for class levels until you have 20+ levels in that class.

The BAB issue, IMO, can be easily fixed -- allow a character with class levels to slowly change their BAB. A Wiz20 has a BAB of +10/+5; if they start taking levels of Ftr at 21st level, those first ten levels of Ftr mean pretty much buttkiss for BAB -- they're already a better fighter as a wizard up to that point. Once they reach Ftr11, allow them to change their BAB to the Ftr progression, until they reach Ftr20; then, they're done with BAB, because they've made that +20/+15/+10/+5 BAB.