Epic Feats and ECL

[spunky_mutters]

I guess I'm just not happy with how Epic rules mesh with the normal rules. I think Archmage should be an Epic PrC, not just another normal PrC. Oh well, too late to change that kind of stuff.

 

[James McMurray]

Well, unless you use the rules from the Epic Level Handbook.

page 25: "For example, a creature with a level adjustment of +5 who is also a 13th-level fighter/3rd level blackguard is ECL 21 and eligible to select an epic feat provided he meets the requirements."

The class level feat (in the original question) has been hotly debated, and Andy Collins and James Wyatt have given opposing answers to the question.

J

Thanks! I knew I'd seen the answer to my question in the ELH, but couldn't find it no matter how hard I looked. I guess I should have thought to look in the Epic Prestige Classes chapter for a question about feats for high ECL monsters.

Of course, this means that the ghost wizard in my campaign can now use epic metamagic feats while he casts spells from inside the possessed dwarven defender.

 

[Pax]

Can a character with an ECL of 24, but a class level of 20 choose an epic feat as his 18th class level feat? He would have been ECL 22 at the time.

Thanks.

Absolutely yes.

ELH page 25, sidebar -- lower right corner of that page.

Once yoru ECL hits 21, you are an epic character, and if you meet all OTHER prerequisites, you can take epic feats.

 

[James McMurray]

And does that also apply towards entering epic levels in a class? For instance, could a 4th level fighter / 10th level Weponmaster / ECL +6 Race character gain his next level as an Epic weapon master? I assume he could, but figure I ought to double check before I cheese my players.

 

[Angcuru]

I rule that if you have class level of 21+, you can take epic level feats, and not otherwise. So the uber-ECL character would have all of his special stuff from being so high ECL, but would still have to get 20 class levels to be eligible for epic feats.

So unless you have 21 class levels, you are out of luck, no matter what your ECL is. At least that's how I see it.

 

[nameless]

I don't like preaching about how other people should run their games... but the Epic Handbook is fairly clear. There's a sidebar that talks about ECL and Epic characters. Basically, once your ECL breaks 20 you are an Epic character and are eligible to take Epic feats. You continue to get nonepic BAB and Save bonuses until you get 20 hit dice.

That said, change it if you like. I say the ECL/LA rules are pretty balanced, if not a little underpowered in many cases. Taking away Epic feats is a pretty big hit to an Epic character, and it just a whole lot less fun.

 

[Pax]

And does that also apply towards entering epic levels in a class? For instance, could a 4th level fighter / 10th level Weponmaster / ECL +6 Race character gain his next level as an Epic weapon master? I assume he could, but figure I ought to double check before I cheese my players.

Yes.

The only requiremetns for gaining epic levels in a class are theese two:

One, have the maximim pre-epic level of that class;

Two, either before or after taking that level, be ECL 21 or higher.

Note that your example could not take a level of Epic Fighter, because he fails the first requirement. If he was a Fighter(5)/Weapon Master(9) with a +6 Level Adjustment, gaining a new level, he also couldn't take Epic Weaponmaster (11), for the same reason.

I rule that if you have class level of 21+, you can take epic level feats, and not otherwise. So the uber-ECL character would have all of his special stuff from being so high ECL, but would still have to get 20 class levels to be eligible for epic feats.

So unless you have 21 class levels, you are out of luck, no matter what your ECL is. At least that's how I see it.

As long as you understand that your ruling is a house rule in direct contradiction of the ELH itself.

Though, I would ask WHY you would do that. Trust me, it's hard enough to qualify for Epic feats with less than 20 HD (so many of them are predicated on BAB or on skill ranks that it's not POSSIBLE to qualify for them with fewer HD).

Your ruling actually undermines the power and efficacy of an ECL-adjusted character. If nothing else, let 'em take stuff like Epic Skill Focus or Epic Prowess ... *shrug* ... they won't qualify for much else ...

 

[Pax]

BTW, James, feel free to message me in Exodus if you have questions -- I play Dhao over there, and the name "James McMurray" is just a wee bit too much of a coincidence IMO.

I don't metagame, so, I wouldn't couch my answers in a manner to enhance my chances against you, nor use that information to tailor my actions against you in a match. I might post an action I know is futile, and STATE as much, and so not waste time rolling dice without need ... but the action'd still occur.