[Epic] Feats

Well, under Aquiring Epic Feats (pg 46) it says there are two ways to get them:
1) at 21st level and every three levels there after
2) Each character class gets bonus epic feats according to the class description.

It does not say you can select them from classes that get bonus feats, just bonus epic feats.

But the whole thing has been brought up before and can be seen and argued either way as the book is not well written. Anyone have Andy Collin's e-mail handy??

Edit: I e-mailed him so maybe we can get this straightened out.
 
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From the errata-

To get epic feats, the character level that gives you the feat has to be an epic level (21 or higher).

Sorry, no cigar bro, but its pretty easy to get confused with the ELH. Mostly because its possibly the worst written D&D supplement Ive seen in 12 years of gaming.
 

No offense, but that's total friggin' BS.

When the FAQ directly and literally contradicts the rulebook itself ... the rulebook wins, IMO.

And the rulebook says, if you're an epic character and multiclass, bonus feats can be EITEHR nonepic OR epic feats, form the lists for that specicic class' nonepic and epic incarnations.

In as many words, FFS!

I'll continue to rok on tracking down some sense on this, but reading the book to mean anything more or less than it SAYS, is IMO pure nonsense.
 

I think what's getting confused, and rightly so..its easy to do, is the difference between being an Epic Character and having Epic Class Levels. Epic Characters only get Epic Feats at the levels divisible by 3...characters with Epic Class Levels(above 20) can choose Epic Feats as their bonus feats for the class. A Rogue 5/Wizard 19(or 20 for that matter) does not have Epic Class Levels, but IS an Epic Character, so only gets Epic Feats at the levels divisible by 3 until the character is a 21st level Wizard.
:)
 

epic feats

I'll try to shed some light on this issue.

1) At every third character level, a character gains a feat. The only change to this rule in ELH is that a character of character level 21+ can select an epic feat, regardless of his mix of class levels. Ftr21, Rog6/Wiz15, Bbn5/Rgr5/Ftr5/Rog6--it doesn't matter, they're all 21st-level characters and thus may select an epic feat as their newly gained feat.

2) Some character classes grant bonus feats at specific non-epic class level intervals (such as fighter every 2nd or wizard every 5th). These feats must be selected from the list of eligible feats as dictated by the PH. For instance, when a character gains his 16th level in fighter (regardless of his other class levels or his total character level), he gets a bonus feat selected from the list of fighter feats in the PH. ELH doesn't change this rule--just because the character's character level is 21+ doesn't mean the character gets to choose from a different list.

3) Most epic class progressions grant bonus feats at specific class level intervals. These feats must be taken from the list of bonus feats for the class in which the level was gained. That's pretty clearly spelled out by the "Bonus Feats" entry for each class in Chapter 1, as well as by the table for each epic class progression. When you gain your 24th level of barbarian--regardless of your other class levels or your total character level--you get a bonus feat from the list of epic barbarian bonus feats on page 9.


The Rog5/Wiz19 who gains a wizard level gets the same bonus feat that any other Wiz20 could select--Spell Mastery, a non-epic item creation feat, or a non-epic metamagic feat. The fact that he's now a 25th-level character doesn't change this one bit. When he reaches Wiz23 (regardless of character level), he can select a bonus feat from the list of epic wizard feats on page 17 (as per #3, above).

These bonus feats are totally separate from the normal "every three levels" feat gained by all characters--when this character reached 24th level, he was eligible to gain an epic feat, and will be again when he reaches 27th level (regardless of class levels), 30th, and so on.

Hope that helps!
 



Re: epic feats

Andy_Collins said:
I'll try to shed some light on this issue.

1) At every third character level, a character gains a feat. The only change to this rule in ELH is that a character of character level 21+ can select an epic feat, regardless of his mix of class levels. Ftr21, Rog6/Wiz15, Bbn5/Rgr5/Ftr5/Rog6--it doesn't matter, they're all 21st-level characters and thus may select an epic feat as their newly gained feat.

2) Some character classes grant bonus feats at specific non-epic class level intervals (such as fighter every 2nd or wizard every 5th). These feats must be selected from the list of eligible feats as dictated by the PH. For instance, when a character gains his 16th level in fighter (regardless of his other class levels or his total character level), he gets a bonus feat selected from the list of fighter feats in the PH. ELH doesn't change this rule--just because the character's character level is 21+ doesn't mean the character gets to choose from a different list.

3) Most epic class progressions grant bonus feats at specific class level intervals. These feats must be taken from the list of bonus feats for the class in which the level was gained. That's pretty clearly spelled out by the "Bonus Feats" entry for each class in Chapter 1, as well as by the table for each epic class progression. When you gain your 24th level of barbarian--regardless of your other class levels or your total character level--you get a bonus feat from the list of epic barbarian bonus feats on page 9.

Yet, on page 8 of the ELH, is wording which directly and exactly contradicts this, under "Adding A Second Class." Could you explain why the FAQ, and your answer here, are the opposite of what the book says?

I mean you no offense, and I doa ppreciate your stopping by ... but it is, IMO, much like the FAQ trying to assert that a LOW roll is good on a to-hit or save: 180 degrees from what the books themselves say.

To refresh your memory, the passage I refer to is this one:

ELH page 8, "Adding a Second Class":
[...] All class descriptions provide a list of bonus feats that characters choose from. When you have to choose from a list of bonus feats in your second class, you can also choose from the bonus epic feats described for each specific class below.

Since the section begins by discussing an Epic characetr picking up the 1st level of a second class, I cannot imagine how that means anything other than the opposite of what you have described here.

IOW, according to page 8 of the ELH, a Wizard(21) picking up their 1st level of Fighter, can choose their bonus feat from either the Fighter (PHB) or Epic Fighter (ELH) bonus feat lists.

The passage doesn't say your character-level granted feat can do so (obviously, no feat gained by sheer dint of character-level is limited to a class' specific list). It says when you are restricted to a list of specific feats. That implies a bonus feat from a class. Put together with what that section is discussing, one can only conclude this would be valid for a Wizard(21)/Fighter(1) choosing their bonus feat (gained as a 1st level fighter).

Yet your answer is completely the opposite of that.

Hope that helps! [/B]

Actually, no, it doesn't. I mean no offense, but I [d]despise[/b] when a FAQ tries to do the job of an Errata. FAQs aren't supposed to change the rules, they are supposed to clarify them.

That's what an Errata is for.

Seriously; if you want to change what that passage means, do so in an errata. The FAQ should never contradict the rulebook, it should only clarify it. At present, it contradicts the rulebook, as do you (oddly enough, since you're half of the folks credited as authors :D ).
 

Pax:

I don't think its a matter of contradiction, but a matter of interpretation. I don't see anthing contradicting anything else, because the way Andy explained it is the way I read it(and tried to explain)...*shugs*
If you have a problem with it being written the way it is...just think of it as Andy(and the book in many places) explained it...Epic Feats can only be aquired as bonus feats if you are above 21st level in said class.
:)
 

I don't think there is errata for the ELH, or for any supplement from DotF onward. The FAQ has been the only errata released for a long time and, as far as I know, is meant to be treated as official errata.
 

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