Epic Game

Wrahn · Mar 12, 2004

Paxus,

Do I need to remake Talariel? She is a +8 ECL and was constructed using the standard 3.5 epic rules. Doing so would have a significant impact on the character.

Pyrex · Mar 12, 2004

Am I missing something? Talariel's char sheet is listed at 8LA+12HD+ClassLevels which should be correct.

What did you do wrong?

Paxus Asclepius · Mar 12, 2004

Wrahn said:
Paxus,

Do I need to remake Talariel? She is a +8 ECL and was constructed using the standard 3.5 epic rules. Doing so would have a significant impact on the character.

I see your point; for the time being, leave it as is while I ponder the problem. At the moment, I'm leaning towards reversing my earlier ruling, for power balance rather than consistency.

For those unclear on where this came from, it's from a discussion in my other epic game.

Pyrex · Mar 12, 2004

*goes to find & read other thread*

Ah, I see. To fill in everyone who hasn't read the other thread, the discussion is about when a character becomes "Epic" and therefore gains access to Epic Feats.

The main question is if a character becomes "Epic" when thier ECL reaches 21 or when they gain their 21st hit die.

FWIW, my interpretation of the rules supports the 'Epic at 21hd' theory. (sorry Wrahn)

Wrahn · Mar 12, 2004

Pyrex said:
*goes to find & read other thread*

Ah, I see. To fill in everyone who hasn't read the other thread, the discussion is about when a character becomes "Epic" and therefore gains access to Epic Feats.

The main question is if a character becomes "Epic" when thier ECL reaches 21 or when they gain their 21st hit die.

FWIW, my interpretation of the rules supports the 'Epic at 21hd' theory. (sorry Wrahn)

Heck it was my interpretation too, until I read the side bar on pg 25 of the ELH, which I think Jemal pointed out to Golden Eagle in the epic game that never got off the ground.

Paxus Asclepius · Mar 12, 2004

The hit die rule is more consistent with most features; it is, however, a problem with play balance, as epic features are specifically design to allow balance at epic levels of play, not at 21+ HD. Therefore, I think I will rule that epic BAB, epic saves, and access to epic feats begins at ECL 21.

Mithreander · Mar 12, 2004

Agreed:

Epic Level Handbook said:
Monsters as Epic Characters

As first introduced in the forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (and discussed in detail in Savage Species), the efective character level (ECL) of any creature more powerful then the standard races in the Player's Handbook is equal to the creature's Hit Dice and class levels (if any) plus it's level adjustment. This replaces the rule in the Monster Manual that states that a creature's "monster level" is equal to it's Hit Dice.

Regardless of it's ECL, a amonster with class levels uses the base attack bonus and base save bonus pregressions of it's class (rather then the pregression shown on Table 1-1) until it has 20 character levels. Beginning with its 12st character level, it uses the pregressions shown on Table 1-1.

In any other place in this book where 'character level' is indicated, you can use effective character level instead. For example, a creature with a level adjustment of +5 who is also a 13th-level fighter/3rd-level blackguard is ECL 21 and elegible to select an epic feat provided he meets the prerequisites.

Savage Species has level adjustments for most monsters in the Monster Manual. Use these modifiers to estimate appropriate modifiers for other nonstandard PC races that you might choose to include.

Pyrex · Mar 15, 2004

So it seems to me that there are only a few likely reasons for Tal's teleports to have failed.

a) Over the course of history, the elves have warded thousands of cubic miles of the high forest against teleportation.

b) The entire High Forest has recently been warded by some huge epic spell.

c) Thor is near to where Tal tried to 'port and has brought mobile wards with him.

I would expect we'd know if it's a). How do we go about determining b)?

Trying to teleport to somewhere several miles north of the territorial bounds of the High Wood might help narrow it down.