[Epic] Insight from my first Epic DM Experience

Stalker0

Legend
I just dmed my first epic game, and I thought I'd share some of the lessons I learned from the experience. The game was 25th level, although I had never run higher than a 9th level game before- But I had a week's worth of preparation so I got ready.

1) Take into careful consideration the number of players. While in low level games, 5 players instead of 4 doesn't effect the CR's too much, at this level with one more character its a brand new ballgame. Feel free to raise the overall ECL's of your encounters by a good bit when you have more than 4 pcs.

2) Don't give the players anything. At low levels, I often feel obligated to give enough clues so that they can work out the plot. At these levels, they have so many contacts and divinations at their disposal that I should be able to give them just one random attack with virtually no clues and they should be able to figure it out. This is epic after all.

3) Covering your weaknesses is far better than enhancing your strengths. At epic levels, a character's inherent weaknesses really start to show through- and they are fatal. Your monster may be doing 300 damage a round, but if he has little or no SR he's one temporal stasis from death. This goes for the players too.

4) Disjunction is THE most broken spell I have ever seen concieved. No SR, and no dispel check. Its a large area, and instantly ALL your spells and equipment are dispelled. And of course, it can permanently take away your magic items. That one million gold rod is gone in seconds, and unless your playing insane treasure games- it won't be easily replaced. PCs depend on their equipment so badly, without it they are inherently weaker than any near equal CR monsters, and often weaker than CR's 4 or 5 lower. If you use it, you risk permantely crippling your party. If they use it, it risks you using it- and it will almost always be worse for them. My I offer the following suggestions for dealing with disjunction.

a) Ban it outright.
b) Give a good in game reason for only sporradic use of it. For instance, you are permanently destroying a lot of magic. That could very well anger the gods of magic, something no body usually wants (unless you've gotten to 40th or so level;)
c) Make the permanent effect only a day or so. Then the party is severely weakened for a while- but at least they don't start from scratch.

5) Unless you play the rule where mind blank blocks discern location (which thankfully it does in 3.5) your big bosses are going to be found out quick. If the party ever sees him or gets a name, prepare for them to be knocking on his door. Also, be very careful with having an enemy take a player's possesion. If that object has ever been touched by the spellcaster, the party just found out where the bad guy hid it, as well as perhaps his treasure stash or secret hideout.

6) Be very careful with epic spells, especially the ones that cover a player's weaknesses. Immunity to certain key spells and certain kinds of damage combined with a little bit of magic and that player can become very hard to kill.

7) Epic characters are still only very strong while together. Isolated they can be easy prey.

8) Be careful when using outsiders. 25th level casters can banish or dismissal them very easily. For higher levels outsiders its often not a problem to get back, but that's either an action (gate) or two actions (plane shift then teleport) to return.

9) The prismatic spells can hurt!!

10) Some tips to make combats last longer, as they are often very short in epic games:

a) Its all about the hitpoints. If your guy doesn't have 300+ hp or a really really high AC, fighters will maul him quick.

b) Teleport in, don't move in. This allows those big melee hitters a chance before they get killed from range. Also a quickened TP is the easiest way to get a surprise round on the party (and vise versa).

c) Keep bringing new guys in, don't drop them in all at once. This allows you to keep hammering away.

d) Certain "offensive" protection spells can be useful as delayers, giving the enemy time to buff. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere and Forcecage give near complete protection, allowing a spellcaster to heal itself and buff itself, or at worse draw one more spell for the pcs before it dies.

e) In master's of the wild, there's a druid spell called last breath that can bring someone back from the dead as standard action. Doing that combined with a heal spell, and the character can be good to go again.

f) Having an enemy use the Epic Feat Spellstowaway [Heal or Mass Heal] can make the combat much more intense. Everytime the party gets a heal spell, so does the monster.

11) Always give your more important enemies an escape plan. A team of two wizards or sorcs scrying on your guy can quicken teleport without error (either through higher slots or metamagic rods) or gate to your guy, and then plane shift him out- allowing him to live another day.

12) There are things far worse then death. Get your intelligent creatures in the habit of capturing not killing the pcs. Pcs fear that far more than death, because true res can't do a thing. Spells like temporal stasis or imprisonment can do take out a pc more longer than death can.

13) Use the pc's rep against them. Epic characters are often well known, meaning where they live, who they care about, and their tactics may be easy knowledge to acquire.

14) Mirror of Opposition- always a great way to give it back to the players.

15) Make sure to give each character plenty of spotlight. At this point, every character should be damn good at something, so make sure they get a chance to show it.
 

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Seule

Explorer
I think the obvious fix for Disjunction is to treat it like a Greater Dispelling that always works. Thus spell effects end, but items can only be destroyed if they are specifically targetted.

--Seule
 


Celtavian

Dragon Lord
re

Good advice. I agree, Mord's Disjunction is an overly powerful spell. It should definitely be single target for magic item destruction at best.

Did you have a good time running the game?
 

Derulbaskul

Adventurer
I've just finished a campaign with two PCs achieving 23rd or 24th level with a 20th level cleric cohort.

One thing I have noticed, without a wizard (neither player likes magic and both are too lazy to learn) they were very vulnerable and the adventures had to be toned down to ensure their survival. Actually, despite their astonishing prowess in melee combat, I still think an 18th level wizard would have wiped the floor with them.

I also noticed that initiative is king.

Cheers
D
 

Cloudgatherer

First Post
Pretty good observations. I've played in a couple EL games and I own the ELH, so I have a couple comments.

First, Disjunction is king :). I was playing a sorcerer, and I would typically lead off with this spell against other NPCs. I can see what people don't like it, and if I were being disjunctioned all the time, I wouldn't enjoy it either, but I think it's a necessary part of the game.

Also, in general I've found the monsters in the ELH to be rated a little too high. Some monsters I look at cannot be beaten by a 'standard' party of equivalent level characters.

Another thing, I didn't see any comments on Epic spells. I didn't care for the system, and I saw many people in online games who simply abused it.

Overall, I like the idea of epic level play. I just don't like the how the rules work for it.
 

Fedifensor

Explorer
Start giving your enemies a few minor artifacts (Staff of the Magi, etc). It may be pretty easy for an epic wizard to make the DC 25 will save, but all they have to do is fail it once and not even a wish can bring back their casting ability. Chances are they won't be casting Mordenkainen's disjunction as often after they make a few saves...
 

drnuncheon

Explorer
Re: re

Celtavian said:
Good advice. I agree, Mord's Disjunction is an overly powerful spell. It should definitely be single target for magic item destruction at best.

Using, perhaps, the same procedure that you use to see if magic items are hit when you roll a 1 on a save? That's still harsh, as most often it will be the weapons and armor hit.

Or should it be even nastier and start going down your list of items until one does fail, like an area dispel?

Right now in our high-level game, we treat it as the 'nuclear bomb' of wizard magic. Nobody wants to be the first one to use it, and its main use is to keep people in check by the threat of its existence.

J
 

Seule

Explorer
I was thinking more along the lines of patterning it off Dispel Magic.
Three modes:
Area: All spell effects end, no level checks
Targetted, individual: All spell effects on target end, no level checks
Targetted, item: Item is suppressed, no check. Item destroyed if save is failed. If artifact, as regular Disjunction


That would make it far more useful. Currently, it could quite easily permanently destroy every magic item of an entire party, if enough saves are failed. That's too powerful.

--Seule
 

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