Epic Level Swordsage/Master of Nine- How to make one

[Brian Compton]

In a game I'm (hopefully) going to join soon, I'm looking to make a 30th level Swordsage with levels in Master of Nine from Tome of Battle. However, I'm not sure how to take the Swordsage epic since there are no set parameters. How would I increase abilities beyond level 20 (or really level 25, since that's when he'd finish the Swordsage 20-level progression)? Also, would he get more maneuvers and stances and, if so, when? Or, like spellcasters, would he "max out" at 20 and add no more maneuvers with specific feats? Also, what kind of bonus feats would be appropriate for the class? Finally, at what levels should the different bonuses kick in? I appreciate any and all help.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Huh...

I don't recall any epic stuff from Bo9S.

In the baseline epic rules, casters don't gain more spell slots after Caster Level 20, nor do they learn new spells w/o spending feats. Their caster level does increase, though.

So, this argues that the character, once he hit Initiator Level 20, would stop learning maneuvers, and instead just get bonus feats. This is, as above, fairly unsatisfactory.

Within (possibly bent) existing rules, you have a couple of options:

1) Multiclass: Take levels of warblade or crusader, and get more maneuvers known and usable, taking advantage of your level for initiator level on the new maneuvers. Alternately, pick up spellcasting or feats or other abilities that complement what you have.

2) Make epic maneuvers: Make a version of epic spellcasting, called epic initiation or something. Create epic-level manuevers, using existing regular maneuvers as guides and going for a suitably cinematic feel*. Granted, the epic spellcasting rules are widely considered to be broken, but assuming both you and the DM are reasonable, you can probably come up with something decent. It would likely be a lot of work, though.

Brad

* - For ideas, I'd check out anime, Exalted martial arts charms, and the like. An example Stone Dragon maneuver might cause earthquakes in the target(s) squares and hit them with flying shards of rock at the same time. A Shadow Blade technique might spew forth Con drain and negative levels in an area of effect, reducing the targets to husks.

 

[Creamsteak]

Personally I have no experience with a game at that high of a level, but I think you are going to find it difficult to build a character at that level with the rules in Bo9S. Your best bet is probably to try to keep things simple and have fighter-style epic progression (bonus feats every other level). The multi-classing is also fairly managable, and would let you build a character that can combine a lot of different abilities without having to work out how higher level techniques might work.

 

[Brian Compton]

Thanks for everything so far. I don't know that I want to make up new maneuvers, but that doesn't really bother me since I wouldn't likely do "Epic Maneuver Initiating" or whatever it would be called anyway- I never liked the rules for Epic Spellcasting and this would have to be something like it.

I may take on warblade levels, or just plain fighter, though I'm playing an elf so that gets into all those XP penalties. I think it would be best just to stick to swordsage. Maybe use the ranger or paladin progressions since they have the extra ability thing that the fighter doesn't?

Also, would any of the swordsage abilities keep scaling (such as Quick to Act)? It has a regular progression so I would guess so.

 

[Nifft]

Bo9S came after WotC kinda gave up on Epic level play... :\

There have been some ideas hashed around, like Combo Maneuver feats, but no support.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Wonko the Sane]

As a five-level prestige class, Master of Nine is not eligible for epic progression...that is reserved for 10-level prestige classes only.

Your only real alternative is to continue taking levels in the initiator classes you already have...for example, the githyanki Crusader/Swordsage/Warblade/Master of Nine I made as an adversary in my last epic game is 7/7/7/5, and he just accessed 9th-level maneuvers. He has way more maneuvers available than he can possibly ready, but with the [quite possibly broken] feat Adaptive Style, that versatility can really pay off big when your entire "spellbook" is just a full-round action away. Once you're in two simultaneous 8th-level stances with a ridiculous repertoire of crazy stunts at your fingertips, you should be able to scare the crap out of all the CR 30+ stuff your DM is going to be throwing at you.

If you had to play the character up from first level, there would be a long stretch (until around 26th level) where you'd lag behind the rest of the party, but since he springs into existence at 30th level, that shouldn't present a problem.

I can post the aforementioned githyanki's character sheet if you'd like, but it's on my laptop (all the way across the room, in a bag), and I'm almost terminally lazy.

WtS