{Epic} Monster qualification for Feats

[loviatarfrostbringer]

Exactly when do monsters (with and/or without class levels) qualify to spend their feats on epic-caliber feats? I've seen 21Hd...I've seen 17CR...combinations of the two...not to mention other abstract rationales. Is it different based upon creature type (like outsider versus abberation versus undead)?

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Alzrius]

I'm not sure where the CR 17 thing comes from, but that aside, I'll go out on a limb and try to answer this:

"Epic" is 21+ levels. For monsters to get epic feats, they should have 21 or more levels, not a CR of 21 or higher (since thats just a measure of how tough they are, which isn't the same thing). Now, in 3.5E (and Savage Species), every hit die counts as a level (since its half of the factor into ECL), so take hit dice + character level of the monster; if its 21+, it qualifies for Epic feats and whatnot.

Note that Level Adjustment (which is different from ECL) should NOT count here. LA is just a measure of how, beyond its hit dice, the monster is better than a creature of equal level, and not representative of a level itself.

Hope that helps.

 

[Arcturus_Rugend]

Actually, I believe if the ECL of a monster is 21 or greater it's considered to be an epic character. This is supported by the appendix in SS where they detail several ECL 20 creatures and say that epic rules must be used when "multiclassing," or taking levels in a non-monster class. In all of these examples ECL, not hit dice, is used to determine if the character is epic.

(edited for grammar)

 

[ruleslawyer]

The "Monsters and Epic Advancement" sidebar on p. 25 of the ELH explicitly states that a creature becomes eligible to choose epic feats when its ECL hits 21.

Personally, I find this silly; not only does it inflate the importance of HD in epic feat eligibility (I mean, is a 21-HD elemental really an "epic" creature?), but it also turns some of the more subjective elements of LA into an objective asset. My rule is that for all NPCs, epic feats become available at CR 21 or higher.