Epic monsters BAB and ST progression

Trainz

Explorer
All right...

Past 20th level, CHARACTERS gain epic attack bonuses and epic save bonuses at +1 per 2 levels.

Let's say I give a MONSTER 20 fighter levels. What increase will that make on the critter's attack and ST's if I do this on a...

CR22 Thorciasid
CR30 Elder Titan
CR8 Athach

When do I switch to epic attack and st progression ? When the critter's ECL+hit dice is over 20 ? When the critter's hit dice is over 20 ?
 
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Character levels for anything, do not give BAB and Base Saves, past the 20th Hit Die of any sort.

There should be little or no difference between an NPC (monster or otherwise), and a PC, when it comes to the pure mechanics of calculating BAB or BAse Saves.
 

Pax said:
Character levels for anything, do not give BAB and Base Saves, past the 20th Hit Die of any sort.

There should be little or no difference between an NPC (monster or otherwise), and a PC, when it comes to the pure mechanics of calculating BAB or BAse Saves.
So you're saying I count total hit-dice, and everything past 20, I divide by 2 and add to attacks and ST ?

Is that what you're saying ?

Is it ?

Mmmm ?
 

Monster HD (for PCs as well as NPCs) always give their normal base attack and saves, never epic attack and saves. Once any creature (PC or NPC) is past 20 HD, they get epic attack and saves for their class levels.

Thus a solar (22 HD) has base attack +22, and a solar Ftr3 has base attack +22, epic attack +2.
 

CRGreathouse said:
Monster HD (for PCs as well as NPCs) always give their normal base attack and saves, never epic attack and saves. Once any creature (PC or NPC) is past 20 HD, they get epic attack and saves for their class levels.

Thus a solar (22 HD) has base attack +22, and a solar Ftr3 has base attack +22, epic attack +2.
Ah. Great. Thank you.

Now... if you just use the Hit-Dice advancement rules, do you also use the epic attack and ST progression rules ?
 

Trainz said:
When do I switch to epic attack and st progression ? When the critter's ECL+hit dice is over 20 ? When the critter's hit dice is over 20 ?

When HD are over 20, subject to my above caveat.

Trainz said:
Let's say I give a MONSTER 20 fighter levels. What increase will that make on the critter's attack and ST's if I do this on a...

CR22 Thorciasid
CR30 Elder Titan
CR8 Athach

Thorciasid Ftr20: BA +21, EA +10
Elder Titan Ftr20: BA +70, EA +10
Athach Ftr20: BA +16, EA +7
 


Trainz said:
Ah. Great. Thank you.

Now... if you just use the Hit-Dice advancement rules, do you also use the epic attack and ST progression rules ?

No. Racial HD always follow the standard progression. A solar advanced to 30 HD has BA +30, EA +0.
 


Oh, Oh, I got another one !

Is there a reason not to exceed the HD limits in the MM ?

For example, a Giant Eagle (MM p.93) is a 4 HD critter, with advancment up to 12 HD. Could I advance it to, say, 40 HD and make a super eagle ?

And what about Natural Armor when you advance a critter by HD, does it increase ? What's the rules on that ?
 

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