Epic Players/DMs: Do you use epic spellcasting?

[lkj]

long duration epic spells should never have backlash: " For spells with durations longer than instantaneous, the backlash damage is per round."

Now that's a very good thing to keep in mind. Need to go back and check a few spells.

AD

 

[ruleslawyer]

long duration epic spells should never have backlash: " For spells with durations longer than instantaneous, the backlash damage is per round."

Y'know, I'd completely forgotten about that one. This is what happens when I try to come up with an abusive epic spell in 10 seconds. Oh well; remove the backlash damage and lower the Int boost to +46 (casting DC 89). That seems balanced to me.

 

[pogre]

You know I really liked the idea of spell seeds, but I see some of the problems you folks are pointing out. I'll have to check out Everquest, like Psion I avoided it. I hear a few folks speak of homebrewing, but has anybody found another system they are satisfied with?

 

[the Jester]

Yes, but no pc has yet developed an epic spell due to cost/time constraints. I've recently thrown in some gems as treasure that specifically substitute for a certain amount of gp for epic spell research purposes. I am hoping to encourage the pc who has the feat to use it.

 

[paradox42]

In my Epic game, we both are and aren't using the Epic spellcasting rules. First, the "aren't" part: my campaign features a 3E-updated version of rules I made for using spells above 9th level in the 2nd Edition version of this same world. Among other things, it relies on requiring a list of specific prerequisite spells to learn any "ultraspell," as well as spending a feat to learn each one, and the caster takes ability damage and an XP cost with every casting. That said, "ultraspells" are designed to be considerably more powerful than what an Epic spell using the official system is capable of doing at the same level, so players seem generally more keen on trying those than Epic.

One player, though, wanted to try the Epic system for the buff potential. As ruleslawyer mentioned, it lets buffs become almost absurdly cheap, and once the character got her "Aura of Glory" spell (+16 to CHA for 20 hours) she gave away her Cloak of Epic CHA to the party Bard and never looked back. She's been working on some other effects recently, but the research costs (particularly XP and time costs) are proving exceptionally annoying for her- this party does not willingly take down time often.

 

[kigmatzomat]

You know I really liked the idea of spell seeds, but I see some of the problems you folks are pointing out. I'll have to check out Everquest, like Psion I avoided it. I hear a few folks speak of homebrewing, but has anybody found another system they are satisfied with?

Y'know, I don't find that it's a problem. Spell seeds are for freaky, special spells that are usually the kinds of things that would end up with the character's name (e.g. Mord's Disjunction). I simply don't expect characters to even consider them until they reach 30th level and even then it will likely be a supercharged variant of a normal spell that doesn't respond to metamagic.

The main spellcastings come from improved spell capacity and the metamagics. Increase die caps, maximized, increase number of spells cast with extra quicken & chaining handle the primary offensive spells. Buff spells tend to be extended or persistent and other utility spells rarely need much augmentation at high caster levels.

 

[JustaPlayer]

I or II? Or does it matter?

I sort of avoided Everquest like the plague...

The first edition. I haven't looked at IIs spell system as of yet, but seeing how the classes are set up very different than in D&D I would have to say there might be a problem with conversion on II.

[Edit] EQ does use mana instead of spell slots but conversion to a slotted system shouldn't be hard.

 

[Aaron L]

Actually, the EverQuest game was pretty cool. Casters were able to use magic pretty frequently, but it usually did about the same damage as a melee characters weapons, it was a stylistic difference between shooting fire out of your hands for 1d8, or hitting someone with a sword for 1d8.

At least from what I remember. I only played a few times. Mostly I read the book because the designers played on my server and I knew some of the people who were made into NPCs, a lot of them had been in my guild.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Y'know, I don't find that it's a problem. Spell seeds are for freaky, special spells that are usually the kinds of things that would end up with the character's name (e.g. Mord's Disjunction). I simply don't expect characters to even consider them until they reach 30th level and even then it will likely be a supercharged variant of a normal spell that doesn't respond to metamagic.

The main spellcastings come from improved spell capacity and the metamagics. Increase die caps, maximized, increase number of spells cast with extra quicken & chaining handle the primary offensive spells. Buff spells tend to be extended or persistent and other utility spells rarely need much augmentation at high caster levels.

See, I find this hard to believe with respect to buff spells when epic buffs (to AC, stats, etc.) so far outclass conventional buffs. I haven't yet seen a character built for a PBMB epic game that doesn't use a +30 or greater epic stat buff.

Not that the "freaky special spells" can't be scary enough. Spells built with the Summon seed can be truly horrendous; at a base DC of 81 to summon a CR 60(!) outsider as a 1-round spell, some pretty nasty effects are possible.

 

[JustaPlayer]

I actually just looked at a 15th-level Wizard spell in EQ PHB and the one I looked at was (4d10+4)x10 cold damage. There are spells that give boost to ability scores as well. There is a 15-th level druid spell that destroys summond creatures or 2d10x10 on a save. Clerics have some spells that heal maor damage. There are spells in which creatures need to make three seperate save or be blinded, have spells interpted, and take damage.

Another nice thing with the system that isn't epic is the itroduction of weapon speeds. For instance, a 20th-level wizard with a BAB of +10 as in DnD can attack with a dagger at +10/+8/+6/+4 or a slower weapon such as a sword at +10/+5. It makes choosing a weapon have more complexity than just trying to choose the one that does the most damage.