[Epic] Some strange questions

[Stalker0]

The page your link is pointing to doesn't contain that quote. This one does.

Interesting though.

I think it would make the most sense. Up until now, WOTC has tried to make multiclassing equal in power to single classing, you gain more powers in alternate things instead of more power in one thing.

But as most people have said, the way its played now with epic rules multiclassing seems much weaker. Something I don't think was WOTC's intent.

But for the sake of argument, let's say that quote was correct. So when I take another level of fighter, making its a Wiz20/Fighter 2, would I get my normal BAB or epic one?

 

[The Souljourner]

You must select these feats from the list of bonus feats for that class, much like the nonepic fighter selects his bonus feats from the specific list in the Player's Handbook.

kreynolds, I think you're misinterpreting this passage. Or rather, putting meaning into it that doesn't exist. the first half of the passage is talking about an epic character taking bonus feats, which must be taken from his list. The second part is simply an illustration of what that means, specifically as it applies to non-epic fighters.

Here's the thing that I think is causing your misunderstanding.... it doesn't say that the bonus feats you get must be non-epic feats taken from the list of non-epic feats for that class. You're assuming that's what it means, but it doesn't actually say that.

I'm going to have to agree with those that say that if you have 21 or more class levels and take a level in any class less than its normal maximum, you get the class abilities for that level as well as bonus epic feats as shown in the ELH.

A single class fighter continuing on above 20 will gain epic feats quite quickly. He could take a few levels of barbarian instead and get some nifty benefits, but he'd be slowing his feat gainage considerably. There doesn't seem to be any inherent benefit to multiclassing or single classing, except in the usual case of spellcasters who must stay single classed or lose a lot.

-The Souljourner

 

[Caliber]

Ugh. This one again.

I don't know so much about the boards eventually reaching a conclusion. As I remember this argument, eventually everyone gave up on ever convincing anyone else.

Personally, I say you can't take Epic Feats using Bonus Feat slots from non-Epic Classes. Besides the fact that I don't think its very sensible, it is slightly unbalancing.

Essentially, a 40th level Fighter will have 1 less Epic Feat than a 20th Barbarian/20th Fighter. That just doesn't seem right to me. Some people said one feat didn't matter. In my opinion it does. YMMV.

Good luck though. You'll need it.

 

[kreynolds]

Hey everyone. I just noticed a post over in General about the latest issue of Dragon (302), and apparently the Sage Advice column addresses the ELH. Hopefully this will shed a little light onto this matter, especially since I've begun wavering (somewhat) ever sense I read The Souljourner's post (thanks for the input, Soul. )

 

[Crothian]

Hey everyone. I just noticed a post over in General about the latest issue of Dragon (302), and apparently the Sage Advice column addresses the ELH. Hopefully this will shed a little light onto this matter, especially since I've begun wavering (somewhat) ever sense I read The Souljourner's post (thanks for the input, Soul. )

This iquestion is specifically asked in Dragon 302. THe answer is bonus feats cannot be epic unless they are bonus feats for having over 20 levels in a single class. So, a 20th level wizard that takes 21st level as Fighter 1 gets 1 bonus feat that has to be from the Fighter list in th e PHB, then his feat from being 21st character level can be epic.

 

[Crothian]

Here's something that's odd, and I thought was the other way.

Automatic Quicken uses the final level if the spell is meta magiced. So, if you can quicked 0th through 3rd, you can't do it to a silneced firball, since it's final level is 4th. I always thought since every thing depends on the base, that's how this worked. Interesting.

 

[kreynolds]

Here's something that's odd, and I thought was the other way.

Automatic Quicken uses the final level if the spell is meta magiced. So, if you can quicked 0th through 3rd, you can't do it to a silneced firball, since it's final level is 4th. I always thought since every thing depends on the base, that's how this worked. Interesting.

Strangely enough, that makes sense to me. I realize that the Automatic feats are supposed to be pretty powerful, being epic feats and all, but I kinda saw being able to automaticaly quicken an empowered empowered maximized energy admixed fireball for free as a little too over the top.

 

[The Souljourner]

Thanks for the compliment kreynolds.

Interesting Crothian, that definitely makes multiclassing much less powerful. It means multiclass characters don't get NEARLY as many epic feats as single class. That actually really really sucks.

a 20/20 fighter/ranger is now WAY less powerful than a 40th level ranger, just because the ranger's going to get a ton of extra epic feats... That really sucks. It does make prestige classes with obvious progressions much more desireable then, since you only need 10 levels of one class instead of 20. Still.... *shudder* I don't think I like that rule at all.

As for the automatic quicken, I think it makes sense. I think everything that refers to the level of a spell refers to the level of the slot it takes up, except where specifically mentioned otherwise (like metamagicked spells' DC). Like the level caps for wands and potions - calculated after metamagic. However, I could see how it could be confusing. D&D needs more (yes, even more) terms for those things that are hard to quanity, like "base level of the spell" and "true level (spell slot taken up) of the spell"

-The Souljourner

 

[Crothian]

Thanks for the compliment kreynolds.

Interesting Crothian, that definitely makes multiclassing much less powerful. It means multiclass characters don't get NEARLY as many epic feats as single class. That actually really really sucks.

I think it makes perfect sense. Why should the first 20 levels of fighter yield anything different depending on if it's your 21-40 levels or 1-20? If you could get epic feats it would make the Fighter and Wizard classes more powerful since they get bonus feats.

 

[Dagger75]

First of all thanks for all the replies.

Second, sorry for asking a question that had been discussed to death before. I seemed to have missed that.

Third, if you all care my game we are going to allow the bonus feats to take epic feats if they want. My party fought for it and so I agreed to it. I think they forgot there major enemies right now are a Wizard/Archmage and a fighter/Wizard/Bladesinger. I guess my bad guys will also be getting the bonus feats