[Epic] Some strange questions

[kreynolds]

There ya go!

Cool! Consider it fixed. Thanks, Caliber!

 

[Pax]

But then your Fighter 20/Ranger 20 would have a BAB of +40, and your Fighter 40 would only have a BAB of +30.

Actually the Fighter 40 would also have a slew of bonus EPIC feats which the Fighter(20/Ranger(20) wouldn't have. Specifically, about ten of them. Which would be ten entire feats -- epic or not -- that the Fighter(20)/Ranger(20) didn't get, PERIOD.

Those could all be Epic Prowess feats, giving the same BAB ... -or- the pure Fighter(40) could learn -other- tricks, instead.

I don't see the two as unbalanced; if you value BAB/Saves over feats, you'll multiclass out of fighter. If you value feats over BAB/Saves, you'll stick to fighter all the way through.

 

[bret]

Way back near the beginning of this topic, Pax wrote

IMC, I wil fix it as follows: screw the Epic BAB progression; youonly get that for Epic levels of a given class. For base PHB / PrC class levels, you get the BAB listed for that class.

But Epic / Nonepic is predicated on each class, WRT bonus feats.

Thus, fighter 20/wizard 20 ... it doesn't really matter the order you get your levels, at all.

The rule I thought of using was 'Best 20' for BAB and each of the save categories.

The Fighter 20 / Wizard 20 / Rogue 20 would have from their first 20 levels: +20BAB, 4 attacks, +12 in each save. The epic advancement stuff would pile on top of that.

Doing it this way, I think it would be fair to state that class granted bonus feats are non-epic until the character has exceeded the normal level limits in a class. Since I'm not really happy with the Epic PrCs that I've seen, I'm not sure what I would do there.

Using these house rules, you are still getting something out of it if after going 20 levels of Wizard, you go 2 levels of Fighter. You get a better Fort save and one more attack per round.

 

[bolie]

The rule I thought of using was 'Best 20' for BAB and each of the save categories.

The Fighter 20 / Wizard 20 / Rogue 20 would have from their first 20 levels: +20BAB, 4 attacks, +12 in each save. The epic advancement stuff would pile on top of that.

Doing it this way, I think it would be fair to state that class granted bonus feats are non-epic until the character has exceeded the normal level limits in a class. Since I'm not really happy with the Epic PrCs that I've seen, I'm not sure what I would do there.

Using these house rules, you are still getting something out of it if after going 20 levels of Wizard, you go 2 levels of Fighter. You get a better Fort save and one more attack per round.

How would you implement this? If a character gets 20 levels and goes to 21st level, do you start altering BAB and saves to reflect if the 21st level is better than one of the previous 20?

Personally, I like the idea of just continuing the BAB and saves as you go per the PH and throwing in Epic Feats and Epic PrCs, etc...

I also don't particularly like the whole Epic Spellcasting, etc..., so I'll probably change that, as well.

Bolie IV

 

[bret]

Yes, it would mean re-optimizing the 20th levels.

Not that bad, really. There are three ways that BAB can progress and two that Saves can progress.

BAB is easiest. Total all the Best BAB class levels. If you are less than 20, then start looking at the Moderate Class levels dropping it if the end level modulo 4 is 1, if still less than 20 take Poor Class Levels in even increments.

Saving throws get more complicated because of the +2 for good saving throws each time you add a class. Take one level in all classes with that as a good saving throw, now add in increments of two levels for remaining levels of classes with that as a good saving throw, now add in increments of three levels for all other classes.

Fighter 5 / Cleric 6/ Rogue 5 / Wiz 6

BAB:
5 Fi +5
6 Cl +4
4 Ro +3
4 Wi +2
19 levels, +14. Take another Fi, Cl, or Ro level to improve.

Fort:
4 Fi +4
6 Cl +5
3 Ro +1
6 Wi +2
19 levels, +12. Take another Fi or Ro level to improve

Refl:
4 Ro +4
3 Fi +1
6 Cl +2
6 Wi +2
19 levels, +9. Take another Ro or Fi level to improve

Will:
6 Wiz +5
6 Cl +5
3 Fi +1
3 Ro +1
18 levels, +12. Take another Ro or Fi level to improve.

In the above case, if BAB or saving throws were important the person would want to take another Fighter or Rogue level next time.

If the person then went Spellsword, the good saves for that PrC is all that would change.

 

[green slime]

I like this idea Bret, I think I'll be using this instead. It makes more sense, at least to me. It shouldn't matter when you take a level of a fighter type.

Now there only remains the problem of the Fighter 1/ Rogue 1 contra Rogue 1/Fighter 1 regarding skill points...

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Yay! They covered the epic feat thingy in the FAQ!




Finally, a reason to play a single-classed Fighter...