Epic Spell Durations

[DanMcS]

There's a modifier in the epic spell creation table of x5 to make a spell permanent. This is applied before the mitigating factors for the DC.

However, a permanent spell could still be dispelled, right? What would be a good modifier for making a spell have an instant duration? Permanent, and undispellable. x10? Higher?

 

[drnuncheon]

There's a modifier in the epic spell creation table of x5 to make a spell permanent. This is applied before the mitigating factors for the DC.

However, a permanent spell could still be dispelled, right? What would be a good modifier for making a spell have an instant duration? Permanent, and undispellable. x10? Higher?

I would hesitate to make that kind of call because of the wide variety of circumstances. Creating a permanent wall of stone that is undispellable is very different than a permanent, undispellable haste - even though the latter is a lower level spell.

J

 

[DanMcS]

A good point. The spell I was thinking of was a transcendance spell, which would change the target to be an outsider (similar to the 20th level monk or 10th level of various prestige classes). I was only thinking in that context, and that it would stink to work hard on such a spell then have to recast it if someone got lucky with a superior dispel or something.

Actually, I don't think an instaneous haste would do what one might think it would. Wall of Stone is instant because it creates and is done. An instant haste would be basically useless, because haste has to be continuously operating So that view of it might work, since this was a transformation spell I was considering.

 

[drnuncheon]

A good point. The spell I was thinking of was a transcendance spell, which would change the target to be an outsider (similar to the 20th level monk or 10th level of various prestige classes). I was only thinking in that context, and that it would stink to work hard on such a spell then have to recast it if someone got lucky with a superior dispel or something.

That would certainly be theoretically possible - after all, one can't dispel a reincarnation, either.

x10 seems pretty fair for something like that - quite possibly even less, as pretty much the only thing you get out of it is immunity to dispel.

That is, of course, assuming that the bonuses the spell grants are pretty much in line with what being an outsider gives you. No tacking on a +100 natural armor bonus to get it inherent for cheap!

Actually, I don't think an instaneous haste would do what one might think it would. Wall of Stone is instant because it creates and is done. An instant haste would be basically useless, because haste has to be continuously operating.

Well...perhaps. On the other hand, you can get inherent modifiers to stats, which was more what I was thinking of when I write the idea - an instantaneous spell with a lasting, continuously operating effect.

J

 

[DanMcS]

That would certainly be theoretically possible - after all, one can't dispel a reincarnation, either.

x10 seems pretty fair for something like that - quite possibly even less, as pretty much the only thing you get out of it is immunity to dispel.

That is, of course, assuming that the bonuses the spell grants are pretty much in line with what being an outsider gives you. No tacking on a +100 natural armor bonus to get it inherent for cheap!

Hah. That would be a whole other thing, and I like to have my epic spells be more cohesive than that. Transcend is meant to be a good first step for a Big Bad trying to achieve godhood. Grants typical outsider bonuses and penalties (no charm person, get darkvision, subject to protection from appropriate alignment spell, etc). Something like Transform (DC 21) to an outsider (+5) seeds, x10 for an instant duration gives a DC of 260ish already, mitigate to taste. If it has a 100 day casting time, even better, because it gives the big bad something to do while PCs fight his minions, and lets them do the good "show up in the nick of time to foil the diabolical ritual" thing.