EQ MM: Where'd all these hit points come from?

[ced1106]

Just picked up the EQ Monster Manual, and boy this is fun. Plenty of sorta-like-D&D critters to spring on the know-it-all players. However, not familiar with the online game, I noticed a good number of the creatures have **MANY** hit points. We're talking fifty, one hundred, two-fifty, that sort of thing. Can anyone who's played EQ online give me a better idea where'd all these points come from (so to speak)?


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[dglass]

I have not read the EQRPG Monster Manual but as I am a former EQ player I can tell you that mobs are designed to be fought by a group of six. While some classes can solo the real fun of the game is cooperating with the other players to achieve a goal. Therefore, if I had to guess I would say that when they converted the stats from EQOnline they kept things pretty much the same.

 

[Red Baron]

The simple answer? They come from all those HD, silly!

 

[kenjib]

They have so many hit points because EQ is all about standing in one place and hacking at a monster over and over again for several minutes until it dies. Fun stuff.

 

[Trepelano]

Maybe its some sort of Hit Dice Envy.

"Our monsters have more Hit Points than your monsters!"

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

They have so many hit points because EQ is all about standing in one place and hacking at a monster over and over again for several minutes until it dies. Fun stuff.

Or throwing fireballs at it, or backstabbing it, or healing the people who are busy hacking. Yeah, what a lame concept for a game


Anyways, I haven't seen the MM yet, but based on the previews I saw a while ago it looked like they hadn't done a very good job applying class levels to monsters. In the online game, you can fight little baby gnolls at low levels, and at higher levels move on to gnolls that essentially have fighter levels or wizard levels or whatever. From what I recall from the preview, it looks like they basically just had different gnolls with different numbers of hit points, instead of doing what D&D would do and slapping a bunch of class levels onto the same monster.

Anway, I get the feeling that an EQ character would have more hit points than a D&D character, though I haven't played it yet so I dont' really know how it stacks up.

 

[Heylel Teomim]

correct meepo

EQ pnp characters have a few more hitpoints, but primarily its that players do damage a bit faster. The haste system in EQ pnp (which is actually very clever) tends to allow a melee to pump out more damage in a single round. Likewise, caster burn spells tend to be more efficient than in DnD, and mana replenishes faster than spells per day.

To speak to why there are various gnolls etc, that's because there are quite literally different breeds of gnolls in EQ online. Each one provided is assumed to be an average version, or a special class version. The low gnolls are classless iirc, but several of the higher level CR7+ gnolls (big pups i know) are rogues, necromancers etc, and statted as such.

Same thing with frogloks, or the creatures of Mistmoore Castle. There's some generic ones, and there's also some rogue templates, wizard templates etc. Its mimicking the online game. In EQ online, npcs rarely have certain classes like bard, shadowknight, etc. Rogues, wizards, clerics and warriors are the most common. Technically by the online game, any non-casting monster is a warrior by default. In pnp that's not necessarily true.

I actually like the EQ pnp game alot. Its a different feel from DnD, but its just as entertaining to me. I hear alot of snickery comments about it from snobbish rpers though, because its based on a computer game (which of course they all have a forty page thesis on why the game sucks, despite having put hundreds of hours into it before quitting). Not that I'm suggesting you're saying anything like that, just making an observation.

Heylel

 

[ced1106]

Anyways, I haven't seen the MM yet, but based on the previews I saw a while ago it looked like they hadn't done a very good job applying class levels to monsters. In the online game, you can fight little baby gnolls at low levels, and at higher levels move on to gnolls that essentially have fighter levels or wizard levels or whatever. From what I recall from the preview, it looks like they basically just had different gnolls with different numbers of hit points, instead of doing what D&D would do and slapping a bunch of class levels onto the same monster.

They ended up doing a sort of shorthand: Instead of a base monster and adding class levels, the designers assumed GMs wanted a "monster they could play out of the book" and list different tiers of HD (with commesurate abilities) for several monsters. Each tier is a different tribe. So for orcs, they have Deathfist Pawns (1 HD), Crushbone Centurians (5 HD) and Crushbone Prophets (Shaman version), and Ry'gorr (15HD) and Ry'gorr Mystics. To add classes to a creature, take the base type and add levels, using the multiclass rules. I guess that'll work.

Actually, my criticism of the EQ MM is that, instead of the "generic" monster the D&D MM has, the EQ MM is the "Monsters of Norahh" -- in other words, selling a setting as much as a creature list. Conventionally, the DMG has the encounter tables, but, not familar with EQ online, I really would have liked tables telling me which creatures are found in which parts of Norrah (especially since such creatures would be of similar challenge levels to the PCs...!)

EQ characters have the same HD as D&D characters, but require more XP per level. OTOH, With racial modifiers as high as +4 and +6, gaining Con bonuses is easier for an EQ character than D&D character.

EQ characters seem to do more damage. With the racial modifiers, most non-humans can have 18 or higher in two abilities. (High strength is good! Spellcasters can cast more spells, although a spell doesn't increase in potency as the caster increases in levels. For example, this min/maxed first level mage can cast ten 1d6 Burst of Flame spells, one per round, although at 3rd level, he had better find a better spell to cast, since the spell will still only do 1d6 damage per casting.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Re: correct meepo

I actually like the EQ pnp game alot. Its a different feel from DnD, but its just as entertaining to me. I hear alot of snickery comments about it from snobbish rpers though, because its based on a computer game (which of course they all have a forty page thesis on why the game sucks, despite having put hundreds of hours into it before quitting). Not that I'm suggesting you're saying anything like that, just making an observation.

Heylel

Nope, I wasn't saying anything like that at all, I still play EQ pretty regularly. I like what I've seen of the pnp game so far, but I haven't managed to pick up any of the books besides the PHB, so I have to reserve judgement until I see the whole system.

And for the record, my guild got its collective ass handed to it in Mistmoore last night.

 

[Heylel Teomim]

Mistmoore

Mistmoore is all about pathing. In a nutshell, its bad. Baaaad bad bad. Things will zig zag all over before they bother running to you. Also, Mistmoore is an outdoor zone, so walls and doors arent really considered solid by the game. Walls block line of sight just fine for aggro purposes, but monsters will still cast at you from another room (and you can do the same). Doors are different, they wont block line of sight at all.

Just some handy info if you're in any cramped quarters in an outdoor area =)

Also for the record, we got thwacked by the Bertoxxulus event last night =( Was only our second try though, we'll get through it in the next week or two.

Heylel