Equipping monster NPCs

[Samnell]

I'm working on a fire giant boss encounter for an upcoming game and what I'm reading is making me crap my pants. The SRD says this about classed monster gear:

"Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character."

I'm creating a sort of a fire giant boss for a 15th level game. He's a fire giant with six fighter levels and the half-red dragon template. I know these things don't always work out as the simple math would state, but my math says:

15 HD + 4 LA from fire giant + 3 LA from half-dragon, + 6 fighter levels = ECL 28

So per the bare math, I should equip my fire giant boss as A. Twenty. Eighth. Level. NPC.

Am I correct by the letter of the rules?

 

[Sigurd]

Are you worried he'll be too powerful or that his death will make your characters too rich?

Or do you just not want to generate\design all that wealth?

S

 

[Samnell]

Are you worried he'll be too powerful or that his death will make your characters too rich?

Both of these. I'm looking at 4-5 15th level or equivalent PCs. Twenty-eighth level loot (like epic items) seems too much both as something to do to them and to give to them if they win through.

 

[Frozenface]

I'm pretty sure that "use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character" only applies to PCs. You should probably just use the fire giant's treasure entry of "standard"... but remember that your fire giant NPC has a higher CR and should recieve that standard treasure as a creature of his current CR.

 

[dcollins]

"Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character."
...
Am I correct by the letter of the rules?

You are reading completely correct, and you're completely correct that it's nuts.

Much better was the original 3.0 DMG which awarded monsters gear by character class levels only, but for some reason a bunch of people thought that was "unfair" to the monsters and it was changed. I don't think enough people have really thought through the end result.

 

[Shin Okada]

15 HD + 4 LA from fire giant + 3 LA from half-dragon, + 6 fighter levels = ECL 28

Thats right. But NPC Gear Value table (DMG P.127) stops at 20th-level. I don't know if there is a rule to calculate the value of gears for ECL 20+ NPC.

 

[dcollins]

Yes, NPC gear is specified in the Epic Handbook. Probably around 400K or 500K at 28th level.

 

[shilsen]

"Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character."

...

Am I correct by the letter of the rules?

No, you are wrong by the letter of the rules, as Frozenface pointed out above (I'm surprised he's the only one who did so). The phrase you quoted refers to "monster characters", i.e. PCs which are using monstrous races rather than the ones from the PHB. It specifically occurs in the DMG, pg. 172, under the section on monster PCs.

You are equipping an NPC, which is a completely different deal. Just do it by CR.

 

[Shin Okada]

No, you are wrong by the letter of the rules, as Frozenface pointed out above (I'm surprised he's the only one who did so). The phrase you quoted refers to "monster characters", i.e. PCs which are using monstrous races rather than the ones from the PHB. It specifically occurs in the DMG, pg. 172, under the section on monster PCs.

You are equipping an NPC, which is a completely different deal. Just do it by CR.

While that text is from inappropriate place, when you equip advanced monsters (especially by adding class levels), you still use it's ECL for determining the value of equipment. Read P.291 of MM.

"If you choose to equip a monster with gear, use its ECL as its character level for purpose of determining how much equipment it can purchase."

Just don't forget to use the value for NPC equipment, not for PC ones.


dcollins,

Yes, NPC gear is specified in the Epic Handbook. Probably around 400K or 500K at 28th level.

Are you sure that is a value for NPC gear? Current DMG does have the table for Epic PC gears but does not have table for epic NPC. And epic PC table says a 28th-level epic PC should have 3,300,000 gps in total. I suppose NPCs should have less.

Edit. My bad. Somehow I misread dcollin's post. If that is 400-500k, sounds appropriate.