ESPION - the game of spies (CLOSED)

[Vendetta]

My computer seems to finally be dead now.
I'm going to be unable to post as regularly as I once had due to this major inconvience. That PoS computer grrr grrr grrr...

anyway, I will still be running and playing games... just a bit slower is all
I'm sorry about this. I hope that in three weeks that I'll get a paycheck that I can devote to buying new computer gear to build a new rig. Keep your fingers crossed for me, please.

Being as my character was on the computer, I'll have to start it over... sorry for the time delay this might cause

 

[DEFCON 1]

Hey guys... these look great. You all put a lot of work into them, and it's been a real fun read. I'm going to go through each character one at a time to try and bring the specialities and hubrises together into a cohesive whole... I'll ask you about tweaking some... emphasizing others... getting more specific on how/why they have certain ones. Some of the ones I've seen don't seem to make as much sense as they might as they're written now, so I'm hoping by getting specific we can either tweak the specialties to fit the history, or tweak the history to fit the specialities.

Please remember that all your agents are very good at pretty much EVERYTHING. There's nothing that your characters cannot do (or at the very least improvise and figure out). So your specialities should be as closely tied in to what your character has done and is VERY INTERESTED IN to put even more time and effort to learning those five things over and above your standard abilities learned as a spy. If you character is one of the top three best in the entire organization in a particular field or activity... THAT'S what you should select as your speciality.

If we take Bond for example, I'd say his five specialties are: Seduction, Gaming, Driving, Connoisseur, and Unflappability.

That list may seem odd (knowing how much he is able to pull off in his movies), but it gives a good example of who he really is, what is REALLY important to him, and how his life has led to those specialities. Bond is at his very core, a PLAYBOY. He finds being a spy allows him to live the lifestyle of a gentleman of leisure that he so desperately wants and is interested in. Thus he is more well-versed in things like wines, casino table games, suits, cars, women, etc. etc. than probably anyone else at MI6. Is he a great shot with his Walther PPK? Absolutely. But has he lived his entire life to be the greatest crackshot that ever lived? No, not in the slightest. Scaramanga would have "pistols" as his specialty, but Bond certainly wouldn't. Does Bond know many different languages? Absolutely. Is he so fascinated with liguistics that he is absolutely fluent in dozens of languages, knows gobs of regional dialects and can talk like a native in dozens countries? Not in the slightest. He knows enough to get by, but is not a foremost authority on languages in MI6.

It's this kind of character specificity that I'm looking for, because it makes your characters deeper and more three-dimensional. Plus it will lend credence to why you have one most important and certain hubris over all others (and I'm going to ask you each to narrow your hubris down to just one). Bond is arrogant, hedonistic, and overconfident... but if you had to choose the one thing that you would suspect would eventually lead to his downfall and death... it's his lechery. One of these days... a female villain he attempts to bed will eventually be able to withstand his wiles and put a bullet in his head. THAT'S what having a hubris is all about. It's the one overriding psychological flaw of your character.

So here we go...

shadowbloodmoon: You wrote that Jason Paquin grew up in an extremely rich family (possibly with criminal connections since he had hired guns following him everywhere). But also that his hubris was Envious. So obviously something happened to him growing up that made him feel like he wasn't getting the same benefits from his life that other people (like his brother) were. You don't leave home at fourteen without having acquired some deep emotional scars. And the fact that his father LET him leave tells me that there is some distance there between father and son. To top it off, upon his father's death... EVERYTHING went to Mark... and Jason was left out in the cold. So I'd like you to go deeper into the character's history if you could. Tell us WHY Jason and his father were disconnected and why Jason had to leave. Then determine which parts of his travels had the most impact on him (and the specialties will come out of that).

For instance... did Jason find what he was looking for while in (perhaps) a monestary in China? A place where money, power and influence had no hold over anyone and he could live there as long as he could envy-free? If so, then his hand-to-hand combat and evasion specialties would fit in perfectly. And your other specialties could come out of that... in his study and life of eastern philosophy.

Or was the travel ITSELF what he found most interesting? Did he never want to settle down because he didn't want to get too close to people for fear of becoming jealous of people? If this is what drove him on (the desire to always see/meet new people/thing), then perhaps some specialties might be Cultural Etiquette (always knowing the proper thing to say/do in any culture), and Direction Sense (being able to find your way around any city / sewer system / area regardless whether you've been there before or not).

In either case, I WOULDN'T say he's "multilingual" because being truly mutlilingual in a "best of the best" sense (like I said above) means countless years of study in linguisitics. Jason obviously can speak (or can fake) many languages (and it makes sense given how many times he went from country to country), but he probably knows the typical amount for a world traveller (English, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, perhaps Russian etc.). To have "multilingual" as a specialty in my mind means you can also read/speak things like Latin, Ancient Greek, many Native American languages, all twelve(?) dialects of Chinese, African tribal languages etc. You've studied languages HARD. Secondly... your specialty of "contacts" doesn't seem to jive with your hubris of Envious. If Jason is truly envious of most people... that doesn't sound like the kind of person who would make friends easily or have them be long-lasting. Now by all means, Jason KNOWS people all over the world... and he can go into most major cities and have half-a-dozen people he can talk to for information and such (as is typical for most governmental agents)... but he is not preternatually disposed to acquiring oddball contacts that will know the precised person, place or thing you need in any place you happen to go to.

So shadowbloodmoon... please go back in and narrow down some of your choices if you could. Figure out how your selection of Envious really, truly, and honestly affected and still affects your character, and how has he grown up through his various espionage duties with that green monster hanging over his head? It seems like I'm being over-picky... but I really am looking for as much specificity of character as possible because only then can you truly become invested in what the character does. Cool? Thanx much!

For the rest of you... posts will be coming forthwith for your characters as well.

 

[Bobitron]

Well, based on your thoughts, I think I need to drop the Medical and Languages specialties from Elz. I'm looking forward to your thoughts, DEFCON. I feel like it's a bit of a lame/overdone concept, but I was having a good time with her in the other game.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Festy_Dog... Carl Archer. Very interesting character (both on the boards and in the email). And I liked how you tied a number of your specialties into your history, but most importantly how you selected an overall goal for the character. That helps us, because it gives us an endpoint to move the character towards. However, I do question a number of the choices you made for the character to reach the goal... because it seems somewhat circuitous in many cases. So I'd like to streamline the character a bit if I could... and gear everything Carl did towards the achieving of his goal (and how his hubris affected that). I'll try to be discreet and not reveal too much from the email. At least nothing of the major specifics.

You said that Carl's ultimate goal was to become one of the greatest spies ever. That is a an awesome desire to strive for, and it certainly should/will impact how the character lives and interacts with people. With this desire however, this does change his main hubris though I think. I would say his primary hubris should/would be Ambitious, and not Vain. If he was Vain, I would expect his history would all be about how he was completely average growing up but he had an overwhelming desire to be more than what he was... probably first when it came to his looks, then to his stature in the community/world. The only thing you touched on that had to do with his vanity was that he always made a point to look good (with clothing and such). But in your case... you wrote that Carl's entire life was to achieve success in his chosen field - espionage. Everything he did was to prepare himself for that eventuality. That strikes to me of being Ambitious to a fault. He wants/needs/HAS to be the best... and will do whatever it takes to get there.

That being said... I really like your choice of Carl getting his degree right out of high school. That seems like a very intelligent way for Carl to make his first steps towards his goal. However, what you had next on his history did not strike a chord with me for some reason... you had him go into military service... and not even with his home nation. This struck me as odd, especially with his going into the Airborne over anything else. I would question why a person who has just spent six years getting a scientific degree would not go directly into his chosen field? If he was truly as amibitious as you made him out to be, why did he not try and get work with ASIS straight away? Or at the very least... if he did go into military service... why did he not select a part of the service where his degreee would actually MEAN something? The way you wrote it... it seemed like his time in the service was just a way to get the firearms and special ops specialties... and not because they were the next logical steps to becoming a spy. So I'd ask that you take another look at the history, and plot it out such that EVERY choice he makes is putting him on the fast-track to his ultimate desire... to become a spy, and eventually the greatest there ever was. I think you'll find that you'll want to change a number of your choices because they end up delaying him on his path, rather than helping him.

After all... there are numerous CIA agents out there in the field that went to college in the Washington DC area straight out of high school... got their degrees and probably interned at CIA headquarters... got jobs there upon graduation... and eventually moved into becoming field agents bright and early in their lives... all without ever serving in the military at all. If Carl truly wanted to work for ASIS his entire life... THAT seems like the kind of path he would follow to reach his goal... without going off in different directions beforehand. Now you can still absolutely keep the specialties of Psychology and Interrogation (as they fit in with your history to a T), and most of the history you had about China still works wonderfully... but I would perhaps re-think your specialties of Pistols and Special Ops (which is too broad a category to be a specialty anyway). As far as Disguise is concerned... if you re-work your history such that the years you spent in the FFL instead became years spent working for ASIS in the relevant department (perhaps in Counter-Intelligence) taking Disguise would fit in better. Your work as a mole in other governments would lend itself to a number of other specialties that would fill Carl out... like perhaps Voice Mimickry, World Politics, Oration, or Sincerity (to lie with perfection so as to avoid being detected, even with equipment).

So go over some ofthese ideas... figure out what makes the most sense to get Carl to reach his goals with the most chance of success... and some of the remaining specialities will come out of that I think. Thanx!!!

 

[shadowbloodmoon]

Thanks, DEFCON1. I was starting to see some holes as I reread it. I'll work on it tonight after my XBox Live Eberron game, assuming there's time. If not, I should have it up by tomorrow afternoon.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Cool beans, shadowbloodmoon. Take your time.

Guys, if you haven't already guessed... for me the character creation is going to be just as important as the game itself... since we have no game mechanics to "fall back on". So hammering things out with what makes the most sense for the characters might take quite a number of drafts over time. Believe me when I say that it will absolutely help in the long run... as you'll get so deep into your character that you'll know exactly what they do and don't want at any point in time when things come up.

For those of you left who I haven't written my thoughts on yet... I'll hopefully get them down tomorrow. But if you see things in your own characters already that you want to change... feel free to re-edit them as we go along. You probably got a sense of what I was looking for with the first two characters, so you'll be able to make some adjustments even before I say anything. Sweet! Good work, all of you!

 

[Festy_Dog]

Alrighty then, I'll get to tweaking Carl's details, thanks for the advice.

Edit: Done, I've edited his character post.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Okay Bobitron.. you're up!

I think Elz can easily fit in to the group, and don't feel it's a lame/overdone concept at all. The one thing I will say is that she probably could have more details worked into history. You gave a brife overview of her career, but didn't go into a whole lot of depth on any particular thing. My advice is to find that one "hook" of the character, and everything will start becoming clearer and clearer and more details will easily be able to be fleshed out. This usually can come out of the selection of the hubris of the character, because the main character flaw can/will color everything that the character has done and gone through in it's life.

Like for instance as I said above, Jason's hook is that he left home because he had problems with his family and was inherently jealous of other people. Everything he's done since then can either be about avoiding being close to people (the travelling aspect), or going somewhere where he didn't have to worry about those feelings (the monestary aspect). And for Carl... with his hook of "wanting to be a spy above all else", everything he's done has put him on that path.

So I'd say the first step is to figure out Elz's "hook". What's her raison d'etre? Her "reason for existance"? Her father was a diplomat in the communist regime and got ousted... how did that affect her? What was her reasoning for joining the Polish military? If she was Rash (just selecting that hubris for the sake of argument here) did she do it just on a whim? Because her father was not around to control her, was she a wildchild... just doing whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, without thinking of the consequences? Did the Polish government and GROM have a hard time controlling her? What problems has she run into?

Or if you go with Righteous... perhaps seeing her father lose his job instilled in her the belief that you never know what is going to happen... so you do whatever it takes to make sure you succeed? Even if that means doing things not-so-by-the-book? Did the changeover from Poland being a Communist to a non-Communist nation change her outlook on life... seeing her father's world crumble around him? Was she happy or upset about the change? If she realizes that change is a part of life... did she join the military in hopes of bringing about change in other areas? Does she fight for change and use any methods necessary to bring about them? Or is she hoping to return things to what used to be the status quo, and does whatever she feels is needed to have that happen?

Those are just some ideas you can think about as you fill in the details. I won't go into your specialties, because none of them really stood out as having more importance to her than the others... since they all were things Elz had acquired through her normal time in her career... but nothing that she really excelled in or was interested in. So I think in your case... once you figure out her hook and the direction that leads her... specialities will come out of it.

Any questions, feel free to ask... and we'll hammer things home! Thanx Bobitron!

 

[Bobitron]

Thanks! I think I will have time to do some deeper writing this coming weekend.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And now... Tonguez!

Marcus I think is actually in pretty good focus... and the reason I say that is because the character (in this one specific instance) is NOT focused. With the decision to use the Indecisive hubris... there's a bit of a haphazardness to Marcus's career that works for him. First wanting to be a pilot, then working in surveillance, then in search and rescue leading to his stealth activities. I like how he just fell into this pathway because he wasn't the sort of person to say up front "I like this!" but instead just did things as they came along and people would only then realize... "hey, he's good at 'X'!". The only place where I would wonder if a better selection of skill and career path might be is when you had him get trained as a helicopter PILOT, rather than perhaps parachuting. My thinking is that once the SAS realized his natural apptitude in the wilderness, that they'd train him on all facets of that, including getting dropped INTO the areas for rescue... as opposed to flying the helicopter that got OTHER people into position for rescue. It seems like they'd want you in the field at all times... and training you to be a pilot (which takes you out of the field) seems to run counter to what you were best at. Thus if you went with the paratrooper concept... a possible speciality might be "Breakfall"... where you've learned how to drop (with a parachute or otherwise) from certain heights and avoid injury. It's not as specific as "parachuting", and thus can be more applicable in many different situations.

Thus taking a look at your specialties... we get this:

Looks like a local. This is an fine specialty that is passive in nature, rather than active. At first glance, you look the part wherever you might be. You don't have the skills to actively PRETEND to be from other countries... (ie you don't have the Disguise ability like Carl does to fool people into thinking you're not who you are), but it's a good speciality that will come in handy for when you need to be unobtrusive... walking down hallways... "hiding in plain sight" as it were.

Camoflauge / Survival. I was almost tempted to say to put these two together into one specialty... basically having the Rambo skill of being able to hide and survive in the wilderness... but I'm wondering if you were looking for more areas in which your camo ability would work? If you wanted to keep it just in the wilderness, then I'd say go ahead and combine the two into a single speciality... but if you wanted Camo to also include areas like cities, or dealing with other people... then you'd need them seperate and I'd need a little more history worked in explaining how you were trained to hide and sneak in urban areas as opposed to just rural ones.

Surveillance. This is cool. It's a natural extension of your survival search and rescue work. I get a very clear picture of the character training on all the equipment and electronics... and being the "tech guy" when going out with the group on their search and rescue missions. And it's only out there in the field that the powers-that-be also realized you had apptitude in hiding out too. So I could see you spending time getting dropped into areas where you have to sneak in and set up communication or relay stations... and then get out again. It's a nice flow and juxtoposition of specialties.

This then just leaves the last one... which I'd recommend probably NOT being pilot... because (unless I totally misread the character), I definitely see Marcus as the guy with the glasses in the movie Predator. The ranger with tech skills. And he's more of a guy in the field, rather than the pilot. So Breakfall is one possible option (which makes sense from a parachuting point of view but also will be applicable in situations where you need to drop from heights even outside the perview of the wilderness (leaping from roofs and whatnot). There are probably other specialities that can come out of this as well (ones that you might have learned within your time in the military, but also apply to situations outside of it as well). You could also select perhaps some knowledge skills as possible ones... things that weren't directly learned while in the NZ military, but instead acquired just from interest in the subject over Marcus' lifetime. So think about that.

The only last thing I'd consider doing is fleshing out the time spent after he retire from service. You summed up his time as a salesman, then a merc, then getting work with an espionage agency in a single paragraph. You probably have some other interesting things that occurred in there, plus a reason why Marcus decided to become an employee for Espion... let's see some of that. Thanx! It looks good!