ESPN Calls Role-playing "Bad Fantasy"

The parallels between fantasy sports and fantasy role-playing games have long been noted by both geeks and jocks (mostly geeks). So it may come as a surprise to some that ESPN decided to draw a sharp distinction between the two with a commercial that casts fantasy role-play in a negative light.

The parallels between fantasy sports and fantasy role-playing games have long been noted by both geeks and jocks (mostly geeks). So it may come as a surprise to some that ESPN decided to draw a sharp distinction between the two with a commercial that casts fantasy role-play in a negative light.

[h=3]Can't We All Just Get Along?[/h]Tabletop gaming and fantasy sports have a lot in common. The Times Union explains just how much:

1. You develop a fantasy world, one you’re a sports coach, the other an elf or whatever. Sure one’s a little more fantastic than the other but it’s still an alternate reality with it’s own set of rules. FFers name their teams, D&Ders name their characters. This is a big similarity!

2. You can’t play by yourself, you need to have a bunch of your friends willing to help you create your fantasy world. One smells like beer, cigars and testosterone, the other like candle wax, red bull and acne cream but it’s still a little group of campaigners that you play with regularly

3. Very few chicks. I’d bet there are actually more women playing D&D than fantasy football. Sure it’s a rarity in D&D but it happens. You look at a group at a fantasy football and it’s pretty clear- no skirts!

4. You’re trying to accomplish something in your fantasy world that you could never do in real life. Whether it’s playing football with Tom Brady or slaying a dragon, unless you develop delusions, this is as close as you’re going to get.


The Jockitch delves deeper into what they have in common, by making comparisons between a draft and character creation, draft order and initiative, and even a commissioner ("commish") and a dungeon master. And yet, the parallels end there. You don't actually role-play sports personalities:

If it did, you’d have people pretending to be Adrian Peterson and Peyton Manning, or maybe made-up analogs of the same, sporting names like Brick Runfast and Meyton Panning, cooperating on the same team as the Football Master led them through a championship season against the evil team from Mordor (aka the Oakland Raiders, but back when they weren’t hilariously incompetent). No, fantasy football meticulously tracks the real-world abilities of athletes, translates them into an arbitrary statistical hash that bears only a passing resemblance to the actual sport, and uses the resulting scores to let hardcore sports nerds compete head to head to illustrate who knows the most about the game, and also who is the luckiest guesser about who will or will not get injured.


A more apt comparison? Historical wargaming:

There’s your real comparison — the weirdos who spend months researching the capabilities and performance of Napoleonic era artillery and cavalry, then painstakingly recreate it all on a giant tabletop battlefield with tin soldiers...


The comparison is rooted in history. Before Dungeons & Dragons ever laid claim to the d20, there was Strat-O-Matic.
[h=3]Like a Baseball, Only Tinier[/h]Strat-O-Matic was popular in the 1960s, attempting to recreate the excitement of baseball using cards and dice, specifically 2d6 and a 20-sided die. There were later versions created for football, hockey, boxing, and other sports. Matt Barton explains in Dungeons & Desktops:

We can clearly see how this type of game has much in common with D&D and CRPGs. First, there is the effort to use dice and statistics to move realistically model fantasies, whether these are imaginary sporting events or battles with fantastic creatures. Rather than just watch sports and discuss them with their friends, Strat-O-Matic and APBA players feel more directly involved in the sport, even though many no doubt play the games from their armchairs (no doubt, many such gamers haven't played baseball in years, if not decades). Later on, we'll see the same sort of trend among D&D players, when Tolkien-obsessed fans want to do more than simply read about fantastic battles with orcs and dangerous treks into dank, dark corridors.


Jon Peterson in Playing at the World makes the formal connection to D&D:

Finally, one cannot entirely discount the possibility that baseball statistics influenced the quantification of human ability in wargames. Games such as Strat-o-Matic Baseball (1962) applied the statistical information beloved of all collectors of baseball cards to the simulation of entire fictional seasons of baseball; in the mature incarnation of the game, a card enumerating the statistics of each player— their batting averages, success in the field, and so forth— determined the outcome of simulated games in concert with die rolls, a 3d6 for each at-bat determining whether a pitch is hit and what base if any the batter reaches. In late 1968, Scott Duncan wrote up a review of this system for the IFW’s monthly, and in 1970 Gygax briefly maintained a column on wargaming for the All Sports Digest, the house organ of the Strat-o-Matic company. Surely, Gygax knew well the operation of this and other similar sports simulation systems; Avalon Hill produced several athletics-themed games themselves.


And yet despite what they might have in common, Barton points out one stark difference between the two simulations:

In some ways, games like Strat-O-Matic were the most socially acceptable of the games we've identified as precursors to the CRPG. The reason for this blind eye was probably the close association with professional sports, a traditionally manly activity and thus an appropriate interest for men and boys of all ages (indeed, it was frequently played by fathers and sons)...it's one thing to walk past a group of boys obsessively discussing baseball and the statistics of their favorite pitchers and batters...however, it's quite another matter when people are displaying the same sort of passion for sorcery and dragons...


Unfortunately, not much has changed since Barton's book came out nearly a decade ago. Which brings us to ESPN's ad.
[h=3]Seriously, ESPN?[/h]You can see the video on ESPN's Twitter feed:

There's good fantasy and there's bad fantasy. Make the right choice here.


ESPN's short ad begins with a live action role-player dressed in a cloak and armor addressing a mixed group of other men at attention. Elsewhere Nightly picks up the thread:

In your commercial, a regiment of fantasy-clad LARPers stand in a line wielding boffer weapons. The king, dressed in armor and furs, walks down the line and spots one of the soldiers with a sword whose cover is falling off. The king, who is apparently also a safety marshal (as many veteran players are), notices this and tells him that it is not suitable for play in its condition by declaring “You cannot go into battle without the proper weapon.” Good on you, king-guy! Keeping people safe. Especially good since the person with the defective weapon, Steve, appears to be a new player (you can tell from his football-gear armor)...“MALACHI!” The king shouts, and his squire appears in a moment’s notice (And look at his helmet, man. And the chainmail. Hhhhhnnngggg I want it). Retaining complete immersion, the king demands that Brother Malachi get a suitable replacement boffer for the new guy from his car. Malachi agrees and then runs to his car while his boffer flail hangs over his shoulder.


That letter chooses to focus on the positive aspects the commercial unintentionally highlighted:

ESPN, you have clearly done a great deal of research here. You’ve displayed the LARP tenets of Safety, Immersion, and Costuming*, which are all important in any LARP setting. In just two lines, you’ve basically explained field marshalling, character, equipment and armor, and showed how helpful and welcoming the LARP community can be. We were all Steve once, and the world of LARP was unfamiliar, scary, and a little ridiculous. That’s how most communities are.


The irony is that it's highly unlikely LARPing is a threat to fantasy sports. The parallel of sitting down to look at an iPad is more akin to tabletop gaming than LARPing. It's more likely ESPN was trying to distinguish itself from the common roots it has with tabletop role-playing games like D&D, and using a caricature of LARPs to make its point. Judging by the reaction to the ad on their Facebook feed, ESPN badly underestimated their audience.

It doesn't matter. There are plenty of role-players who like fantasy sports without accusing fans of one or the other of #BadFantasy. The fact that ESPN even feels it needs to distinguish between the two is yet another indicator of the increasing popularity of fantasy gaming.

Mike "Talien" Tresca is a freelance game columnist, author, communicator, and a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to http://amazon.com. You can follow him at Patreon.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca


log in or register to remove this ad

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
WotC could retaliate by calling ESPN "bad sports" (pun totally intended) and point to their eroding ratings as proof.

Considering that ESPN is a lot bigger than WotC, the publicity alone ought to be worth it.
 

BronzeDragon

Explorer
They didn't do any such thing.

Oh, really?

History disagrees with you sir.

[video=youtube;sbbqMoEwDqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc[/video]

Players from past editions being shown as confused, dorky and simplistic, while the new edition's players are going to be quick, rules savvy and OH SO COOL!!!.....

No, they never did that...
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
Oh, really?

History disagrees with you sir.

[video=youtube;sbbqMoEwDqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc[/video]

Players from past editions being shown as confused, dorky and simplistic, while the new edition's players are going to be quick, rules savvy and OH SO COOL!!!.....

No, they never did that...

I don't see that anywhere in the video. I see commentaries on the foibles of each edition (a joke about gaming on a budget by using stuff from around the house as makeshift minis), but I'm not seeing any kind of attack on the quality or character of the players of previous editions.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Oh, really?

History disagrees with you sir.

[video=youtube;sbbqMoEwDqc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbqMoEwDqc[/video]

Players from past editions being shown as confused, dorky and simplistic, while the new edition's players are going to be quick, rules savvy and OH SO COOL!!!.....

No, they never did that...

I don't view that as, "a whole campaign making fun of its own players showing how quaint and ridiculous people that played the previous editions were". Do you honestly see it that way? I am not asking if you dislike it or have other objections to it, I am asking if you see it exactly as that sentence I just quoted? Because I don't see any way to view that view as a "campaign of making fun" or "ridiculous people". In fact the whole theme is about the game remaining the same but just with some refinement to tools - the whole point is that the PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME REMAIN THE SAME.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BronzeDragon

Explorer
If you guys can't detect any sort of sarcasm and/or contempt there, then I can't help you.

I wasn't the only one who noticed this at the time. Here's an example of a thread in the forums of the company that at the time was simply known as "the guys who used to publish Dragon and Dungeon, and are making an adventure path":

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2hjwa?4E-teaser-video-marketing-disaster

I couldn't find any links in ENWorld itself, but I remember seeing similar threads drawing similar conclusions.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
If you guys can't detect any sort of sarcasm and/or contempt there, then I can't help you.

I wasn't the only one who noticed this at the time. Here's an example of a thread in the forums of the company that at the time was simply known as "the guys who used to publish Dragon and Dungeon, and are making an adventure path":

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2hjwa?4E-teaser-video-marketing-disaster

I couldn't find any links in ENWorld itself, but I remember seeing similar threads drawing similar conclusions.

You can't "convince" me. I don't need help seeing things that aren't there.

Also, oh no! You mean to tell me some people on the internet took offense to something? This must be the first time that's happened, so you know it has to be serious.

Seriously, it would be ridiculous on its face to genuinely insult the people who you were trying to convince to buy your product. And, fortunately, the video you posted doesn't do that. It points out the foibles of previous editions (and makes a joke about using household items as makeshift minis), but can you please point out a specific part in the video where the quality or character of the players of the prior editions is impugned?
 

Nagol

Unimportant
You can't "convince" me. I don't need help seeing things that aren't there.

Also, oh no! You mean to tell me some people on the internet took offense to something? This must be the first time that's happened, so you know it has to be serious.

Seriously, it would be ridiculous on its face to genuinely insult the people who you were trying to convince to buy your product. And, fortunately, the video you posted doesn't do that. It points out the foibles of previous editions (and makes a joke about using household items as makeshift minis), but can you please point out a specific part in the video where the quality or character of the players of the prior editions is impugned?

2:31 to 3:05 where the none of the players nor the DM can work out how the (relatively simple and straightforward) grapple rules work. Dumb sketch.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
2:31 to 3:05 where the none of the players nor the DM can work out how the (relatively simple and straightforward) grapple rules work. Dumb sketch.

I agree with you that it's a dumb sketch.

However, I just rewatched that section. Let me break down 2:31 to 3:05 in the video:

2:31 "I grapple the troll." "How do you do that?"

2:32 to 3:00 Nothing happens as they look up the rule.

3:01 to 3:04 DM states that resolving a grapple is a four step process and describes the first step of resolving a grapple.

3:05 The player chooses to simply attack instead. Perhaps because he doesn't want to risk an AoO. Perhaps because he thinks a four-step process is too much BS for resolving a grapple.

Not a single moment of that shows them being unable to work out how the grapple rules function.


Also, just look at the 3e grapple rules.

You provoke an AoO. If you are hit by it, the grapple fails.
You must make a melee touch attack, or the grapple fails.
You must make an opposed grapple check of the grapple fails.

You have to pass three separate hurdles, each one making the grapple more likely to fail. I don't require three different hurdles when my players attempt an improvised action, much less do something blessed by the official rules. Frankly, I never expect a player to attempt a single action with multiple hurdles that create auto-fail scenarios.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nagol

Unimportant
I agree with you that it's a dumb sketch.

However, I just rewatched that section. Let me break down 2:31 to 3:05 in the video:

2:31 "I grapple the troll." "How do you do that?"

2:32 to 3:00 Nothing happens as they look up the rule.

3:01 to 3:04 DM states that resolving a grapple is a four step process and describes the first step of resolving a grapple.

3:05 The player chooses to simply attack instead. Perhaps because he doesn't want to risk an AoO. Perhaps because he thinks a four-step process is too much BS for resolving a grapple.

Not a single moment of that shows them being unable to work out how the grapple rules function.


Also, just look at the 3e grapple rules.

You provoke an AoO. If you are hit by it, the grapple fails.
You must make a melee touch attack, or the grapple fails.
You must make an opposed grapple check of the grapple fails.

You have to pass three separate hurdles, each one making the grapple more likely to fail. I don't require three different hurdles when my players attempt an improvised action, much less do something blessed by the official rules. Frankly, I never expect a player to attempt a single action with multiple hurdles that create auto-fail scenarios.

On its own, I'd tend to agree with you, but the sketch is in context -- that context being set up by the terrible narrator about 30 seconds earlier in the clip "The rules were deep and sometimes... involved!"
 

Related Articles

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top