Essentials nostalgia - the death of martial healing

[ExploderWizard]

But the flavor of hit points and there nature as an abstraction of heroic luck and morale and energy... is pretty much set and defined by the existence of the martial healer.

.........but when I get that feelin, I need martial healing. It feels so good to me............

Seriously? What about healing surges?

" Wow Bob we thought you were a goner there. When that ogre brought the club down on your head and you dropped like a rock it looked like lights out."

" Nah, just needed to catch my breath."

 

[Scribble]

Two things:

First, as others have mentioned the warlord is still a perfectly legit character class. Remember, Essentials adds to the game. It doesn't replace anything (save for rules updates we've made and a few tweaks here and there).

Second, I think the real knock on the warlord isn't that it's a martial healer. The thing, to me, is that the class heals in exactly the same way as the cleric and other classes. I think that sells the flavor of a martial healer a little short. It's an interesting design challenge, and I like interesting challenges.

I petition we nickname Mike Mearls "Big Daddy" so we can say stuff like "Big Daddy has spoken."

 

[Mouseferatu]

The thing, to me, is that the class heals in exactly the same way as the cleric and other classes. I think that sells the flavor of a martial healer a little short. It's an interesting design challenge, and I like interesting challenges.

An interesting exercise, indeed. Unfortunately, it's limited to the warlord, when I'd actually love to see the other healer classes modified in other directions as well.

For instance, since the warlord's healing is intended to be "inspirational," I'd love for many/most of his healing abilities to be of the "You hit the enemy, and also heal one nearby ally" sort. But then I'd want to see the cleric lose such powers, and focus on more overtly magical effects like the traditional healing word.

Obviously not an option at this stage of the game. But it's certainly difficult to make a Leader A's healing feel different than Leader B's, when Leader B has half a dozen different varieties of healing powers.

You know what might be interesting for a martial/inspirational healer, though? Powers that are dependent on the actions of the recipient of the healing. For instance:

INSPIRING WORD
You call out to a wounded ally and offer inspiring words of courage and determination, allowing him to draw additional confidence and vigor from his own victories.
Encounter (Special) * Martial, Healing
Minor Action Close burst 5
Target: You or one ally in burst.
Effect: The next time the target successfully hits an enemy with an attack, the target may also spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6 hit points.

Obviously, that's just a wild idea off the top of my head. And heck, you could have powers that do all sorts of things like that: Heal next time you use an encounter or daily power. Gain a saving throw next time you use a daily power. Spend a healing surge next time an ally in line of sight is hit. (And sure, the downside is that the person doesn't get the healing right now, which could be bad in some situations, so there would have to be advantages to balance it out. But like I said, this is just a wild hair idea.)

Point is, if its meant to be inspirational, and to feel different than everyone else's healing, then having effects that kick in based on the actions/circumstances of the recipient, or of the other allies around might be an intriguing way to go.

(Silly not-even-remotely-legal disclaimer: Anyone at WotC, or any freelancer, is welcome to use this general idea if by any chance you decide you like it, and if I don't do something with it first. Just give me a special thanks or something. )

 

[MrMyth]

Do they intentionally aim to breed more of...
"oh I dont think our DM allows that old class I mean healing by talking at people doesnt make sense does it now?"

Recognizing even the cleric healing has a direct analog of RL faith healing and is as much just improving morale etc as the Warlords - will be even less common.

Get ready to saddle yourself to a cleric in every party guys.. doooom doooom doooom.

I can get this concern. If the cleric is the only leader in Essentials, every group will need to have one, right?

Just like every group using the PHB has to have a Wizard, right?

Except that you no longer need to fill all the roles. Many will, sure. Others will get by with potions, or magic items, or a Paladin, or...

...say, Second Wind. You know, the morale-based healing that every single character will have.

I do think we'll see lots of starting groups with clerics. But the rest of 4E is still there. Warlords aren't going to mysteriously die off. There is no 'hidden message' about morale-based healing getting the boot. Seriously, there is nothing to worry about here - you've got a Warlord in the PHB with multiple sourcebooks of support, and it will remain just as viable now as ever.

 

[Garthanos]

.........but when I get that feelin, I need martial healing. It feels so good to me............

Seriously? What about healing surges?

" Wow Bob we thought you were a goner there. When that ogre brought the club down on your head and you dropped like a rock it looked like lights out."

" Nah, just needed to catch my breath."

You mean second wind *(healing surges at core are just a limit on how much healing can accomplish and a way to have recovery scaled to the hit points of the target)

... and sure it does help.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Two things:

First, as others have mentioned the warlord is still a perfectly legit character class. Remember, Essentials adds to the game. It doesn't replace anything (save for rules updates we've made and a few tweaks here and there).

Second, I think the real knock on the warlord isn't that it's a martial healer. The thing, to me, is that the class heals in exactly the same way as the cleric and other classes. I think that sells the flavor of a martial healer a little short. It's an interesting design challenge, and I like interesting challenges.

I think what I'd want is no bonusses to the surge based healing from the Warlord. Instead he allows the recipient to spend a surge - and provides a bonus. (+2 to all defences as for Second Wind (or possibly your next attack) rather than +1d6 hp/5 levels). When the Warlord's your leader, fights should be nasty and brutal - and even more so for the bad guys.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Just skimmed the thread but while the warlord can be fun to play for a tactically minded player I don't think it's newbie friendly. Clerics are pretty simple whack things and heal people Warlords are tricky the heal but their real strength (seems to mr not seen one played) is they get others to move and lay down the smackdown on the warlords turn.

 

[Mengu]

Second, I think the real knock on the warlord isn't that it's a martial healer. The thing, to me, is that the class heals in exactly the same way as the cleric and other classes. I think that sells the flavor of a martial healer a little short. It's an interesting design challenge, and I like interesting challenges.

I think the Artificer, Shaman and Runepriest "did it right" when it comes to adding some of that extra flavor into the healing feature. Bard was a valiant attempt. Ardent falls somewhat short of the mark.

The Warlord for instance could have an optional Inspiring Word (sort of like the way Artificers have two, one of which has an alternative). The second one could be in the form of a standard action instead of minor action. Target makes a basic attack and may spend a healing surge to gain temporary hit points equal to his healing surge value. If the attack hits, the target also regains 1d6 hit points (scale to 2d6/3d6/etc). Tweak as needed with bonuses to either the attack or the healing.

This would make the warlord a bit more unique in their healing with that second option, since they can now handle situations where they are dazed or otherwise limited in actions, a little bit better as they have the option of healing with a minor, or pseudo-healing with a standard that also happens to include an attack.

There are so many things that can be done if you don't mind deviating from the standard template of minor action, spend surge, get some bonus healing.

 

[ExploderWizard]

You mean second wind *(healing surges at core are just a limit on how much healing can accomplish and a way to have recovery scaled to the hit points of the target)

... and sure it does help.

Both actually. Just sitting around for a 5 minute beer break and "healing" 60 points of damage just by burning surges is fair indication that all those "wounds" were not physical. This kind of recovery doesn't require healing at all actually, martial or otherwise.

 

[Scribble]

Both actually. Just sitting around for a 5 minute beer break and "healing" 60 points of damage just by burning surges is fair indication that all those "wounds" were not physical. This kind of recovery doesn't require healing at all actually, martial or otherwise.

What do you consider the number of healing surges a character has? Not part of the character?

I don't agree with your assertion- because to me, if the PC is down any number of healing surges, he's still down some level of health resources.

HPs represent immediate standability, while Healing Surges represent more long term standability.

(It's kind of like expanding upon the idea of system shock saves from massive damage.)