Essentials: which new players?

[TerraDave]

One of the stated goals of the essentials lines is to be a gateway for new players into 4E.

Looking at the previews, I have started to wonder, which new players. See, I thought 2008 4E was focused on new new players , as in players who never played D&D. Some of that focus, like the virtual tabletop, didn’t work out. But the streamlined presentation, uniform power structure and emphasis on “kewl powers”, presentation of standard builds (and the user friendly character builder) and the general fact that they were willing to go after sacred cows for playability all seemed to be geared for new players. Or I mean new new players.

Now, these essentials classes may be even easier, or some of them may be. But the much more conspicuous change is how retro they are. (ie 3.9)Like they are trying to make 4E compatible material that is more appealing to people who have or did play pre 2008 D&D: New old players

Not that there is anything wrong with that. And you can try to do both, I guess.

Discuss.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Fewer options at character creation is potentially good for new new players. Beyond that.... I don't see changes that are germane to new new players. In fact, my experience suggests that the power system is more attractive to new new players than the retro presentation of martial classes they're going with. The power system's essential similarity to a tactical videogame or MMO is a boon here. Encounters have a cooldown. Dailies have a long cooldown. This is really, really straightforward for most of the younger people I've met who would consider playing D&D. YMMV, etc etc.

But the sweeping semantic changes and old school way of smacking things with assorted weapons are most definitely there for new old players. The schools of magic are a particularly telling one, as well. They've always struck me as a very specific bit of flavor that is not representative of the bulk of fantasy gaming and literature, so much so as to be deeply unintuitive and even confusing for people outside the D&D world. But it's a very strong D&Dism that will bring certain people out of the woodwork.

New old players are definitely the primary target, IMO, if what they've shown us is representative.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Judging by the previews - and the fact the first product is a retro-nostalgic 'red box' set - Essentials is primarily aimed at 'old new' players, who liked 2e, or maybe even 3e, but couldn't grok 4e. Actually, I'm guessing it's hoping to bring in a lot of those players who were lost with 3.x, rather than bring in 3.x fans who didn't make the switch (because they've got Pathfinder, already).

(Yeah, I said 'grok.' No, I didn't even like Stranger in a Strange Land.)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think it is aimed squarely at both. Remember, most stuff kids get is gifts, or at the very least their parents are paying for it or saying "yes" or "no". If you played Red Box back in the day then you're probably a lot more likely to buy that for your kids at $15.00 than to pay north of $70.00 for the 3 core books. The buyer in that case also understands the product, its an intro, they'll need another book to keep playing, etc. It's also cheap enough that it becomes an easy gift or even impulse buy. Cheap enough that kids can even afford it themselves.

Heck, I remember getting a set of the original D&D books. It was what, $9.95 in 1976. That was a lot of money. It was a big deal. This box is SO cheap and actually has good stuff in it. The original Red Box was probably almost as expensive back in 1978. It is definitely aimed at kids. I'd even venture that WotC is making zilch on that set, it's a lost leader.

Sure, the retro feel is a hook for old players, and they certainly hope to get them, but I think it's a more sophisticated strategy. Get as many copies of SOME form of D&D out there in people's hands by any means possible. The more parents that decide to play a bit with the kids or just get back into the game the more the game has a chance to expand and pull in new people.

Honestly if there was a mistake in the whole D&D business plan it was not doing this from day 1. Essentials should have come out 2 years ago. The Starter Kit they did sell was really not nearly as good as this one is.

 

[jasonbostwick]

. See, I thought 2008 4E was focused on new new players , as in players who never played D&D. Some of that focus, like the virtual tabletop, didn’t work out. But the streamlined presentation, uniform power structure and emphasis on “kewl powers”, presentation of standard builds (and the user friendly character builder) and the general fact that they were willing to go after sacred cows for playability all seemed to be geared for new players. Or I mean new new players.

I don't think that early 4E was aimed towards 'new new' players at all. I remember that it was said at the time that the marketing strategy was to help transition 3.5 players for the first year or so, then try and lure back lapsed gamers, and then finally aim at people who had never played RPGs before - and I interpreted Essentials as meaning that they had finally reached that third phase of their marketing.

While the presentation of the 4E core books was streamlined and the readability was improved somewhat over 3.5, I don't think it actually made the game that much easier to pick up for a group who had no experience with RPGs. As someone who only started playing D&D in the last 5 years, I can still remember some of the frustration and confusion I had on first getting a group together - without having had a bit of guidance from the older brother of one of our group, it's likely none of us would have kept playing. A friend of mine (who is a dedicated gamer now) had the 3.5 core books sit in his closet for 4 years after he and his friends weren't as lucky as I was and their attempts at figuring the game out failed.

4E might be easier to pick up for someone who can join an existing group, but for the hypothetical 15-year old who read about D&D on Penny Arcade and wants to start a game with a few of his friends, there are a lot of roadblocks.

Having seen the unboxing video of the Red Box, I think that Essentials might help reach these players a lot better than any of the WotC starters sets have in the last 10 years. Step-by-step chargen that explains what everything on the character sheet means by showing you how they're used in an encounter is pretty brilliant. Here's hoping that it works and Essentials brings a lot more players into the fold.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I don't think that early 4E was aimed towards 'new new' players at all. I remember that it was said at the time that the marketing strategy was to help transition 3.5 players for the first year or so, then try and lure back lapsed gamers, and then finally aim at people who had never played RPGs before - and I interpreted Essentials as meaning that they had finally reached that third phase of their marketing.

The box screams "Give me to kids!"

The rules we've seen scream "We're sorry lapsed players!"

I don't know if this means they're straddling phase 2 and phase 3 or what, but it feels incoherent to me. That could just be me. But it's based on my experience is that 4e is more new new player friendly than 3.x or even 2e, so my reaction to some of the changes has been "Oh, ick. I'll never sell anyone on that."

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I agree with the point made up thread that the Essentials is geared to players of 1e/2e rather than 3e.

The box screams "Give me to kids!"

The rules we've seen scream "We're sorry lapsed players!"

I don't know if this means they're straddling phase 2 and phase 3 or what, but it feels incoherent to me. That could just be me. But it's based on my experience is that 4e is more new new player friendly than 3.x or even 2e, so my reaction to some of the changes has been "Oh, ick. I'll never sell anyone on that."

I think that they are melding 2 and 3, I think that they want to play on nostalgia of the 40 something who played with the red box back in the eighties that this would be a good present for some kid in their life.
So they buy the box for little Johnny and then Little Johnny asks them how does this work dad and they DM for them and before you know it all the family are investing in the Essentials core rules.
This being the optimistic scenario from WoTC's point of view.
That it also will attract kids with no prior exposure is jam on top.

 

[Scribble]

Now, these essentials classes may be even easier, or some of them may be. But the much more conspicuous change is how retro they are. (ie 3.9)Like they are trying to make 4E compatible material that is more appealing to people who have or did play pre 2008 D&D: New old players

Not that there is anything wrong with that. And you can try to do both, I guess.

Discuss.

I think we as players pay a lot of attention to the rules, and tend to ignore most(everything) else that goes into attracting new players.

One of the most important parts I think of the Essentials design for attracting new players has nothing to do with the rules.

I think WoTC took a good look at why the game has been released in the "PHB, DMG, MM" format and asked whether it was really anything more then tradition, and if it was indeed the best way to get people into the game.

Essentials seems designed to guide the new players right into what they need to get playing. Start with the red box, move into either DM role with these products, or player role with these products.


Having not seen any of the products yet, I'm not sure how true this will be, but it also seems like they're trying to make the product easier to "customize" to your play style... Do you like the "traditional" race/class structure? Only use these books... Do you like the Weirder races/classes? Use these books...


So I don't really think it's just about new players. It's about making the game as usable as possible by everyone who might be interested in it.

 

[IronWolf]

The box screams "Give me to kids!"

The rules we've seen scream "We're sorry lapsed players!"

This is what I see. Though instead of "Give me to kids" I see it as give to kids, give to college students or pick up yourself as someone curious as to what this game is all about at an easy entry point. Everything in one box is great and it is not confusing. The price point is likely good as well. I think boxes sets are a great thing for getting into the RPG world, I know it is where I started.

As for the retro look, this lets it double as a way to bring back older players as well that have been gone from the game for awhile. Or even as something recognizable to old, lapsed players to see and think "I should intro this to my kids." even if they have no intention of getting back into it.

And the rules, those changes seem to speak more to the folks that might not have moved to 4e as a way to possibly throw and olive branch their way.

 

[MrMyth]

I don't see anything contradictory about marketing it both to new players and lapsed players of older editions. I think those are the two primary target audiences (with current players as the third), and all of them possible to please with the same product.

Simplified rules, and classic flavor, are two entirely different elements - they are able to exist alongside each other without any conflict.

So yeah - I definitely think they are trying to appeal to both crowds, and it seems a reasonable strategy to me.