European markets and d20 publishers - a little survey

[sotterraneo]

I'd like to pose some questions to the d20 publishers in this list. I don't know any forum which could be better for reaching the
most interesting and important ones all together... This is a really interesting subject really worth exploring more (for me, at
least...). So I have designed some questions and I hope many of you will answer. I'll use the answers to write an article, in
English (to be sent to En World, hoping Morrus will be interested in running it) and in Italian (for the www.dungeons.it web
site).

Thanks to everybody in advance!

Ciro

In the past I have seen some remarks (notably by Ryan Dancey) about the importance of 'developing more' the European
markets. Please note that the EU is not the US in 'Euro sauce': there is no single market for gaming products (due mainly to
different languages and I know of no 'European rights' contracts in gaming business so far). The UK for the purposes of this
survey is considered part of the US Publishing Empire for language and distribution reasons (for example, I receive the
Mongoose book from Alliance/Diamond, not from Great Britain 8-]).

1) What is your opinion about European markets regarding D&D/d20 products in general?

2) Do European markets have a significant share of your overall sales?

3) Do you work directly with European wholesalers or are your company's products sold to European markets via US
wholesalers (such as the Diamond/Alliance conglomerate)?

4) Do you have (or had) any specific policies targeting European markets?

5) Do you have any translation agreements with European publishers?

6) Were translations of your company's products successful?

7) When you plan a product, do you consider of significant importance the fact it could be sold outside the US and that it could
be translated in a foreign language?

8) Have you ever seen original European d20 products in non English language?

9) Have you ever considered the idea of having European authors working on your company's products?

10) Do you see, in the long term, an integrated US-EU gaming market?

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

I would like to chime in and exhort all publishers to participate in this little survey.
I am actually interested in the state of gaming in Europe, especially because of the language issue, and it is incredibly hard to get information about how our fellow gamers from the "Old World" do with the hobby over there. It would be amazing if good communication channels could be opened in order to close the gap placed by the world's oceans and truly strive for a global gaming community. Plus imagine the wealth of new gaming material that both sides would benefit from!
On a more selfish level, I would also like to know some of this information because I have been considering a move to Europe, and if I do I would like to know what to expect, more or less, when it comes to this hobby of mine.

So once again, I exhort all publishers to participate in this survey and help unite in gaming Europe, North America, South America... heck, the world over.

 

[sotterraneo]

"I would like to chime in and exhort all publishers to participate in this little survey".
So far, I am out of luck. Nobody bothered to reply here or on the OGL mailing list. I'm sincerely quite amazed by this lack of interest... Perhaps publishers aren't interested in sharing what they could consider 'proprietary information'.
"I am actually interested in the state of gaming in Europe, especially because of the language issue, and it is incredibly hard to get information about how our fellow gamers from the "Old World" do with the hobby over there".
There are a lot of European gaming sites, of course in the various main languages of Europe. The problem is, in my opinion, that the US gaming community seems to have interest only in itself and devotes very little, if any, attention to European gaming, games and gamers. This 'isolationist' attitude is shared by Americans in general, I fear.
"On a more selfish level, I would also like to know some of this information because I have been considering a move to Europe, and if I do I would like to know what to expect, more or less, when it comes to this hobby of mine".
Ganming is a well developed activity, in various degrees of course, in all of Western Europe and in some part of old Eastern Europe (Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic especially). The biggest gaming markets in Europe (barring the UK for language reasons) are France, Germany, Spain and Italy (my country is, sadly for me, the fourth in the list...): they have lively gaming industries with various publishers, magazines, conventions, tranmslated and 'indigenous' games of many kinds - you Americans have seen many French and German boardgames translated in English by Rio Grande Games and by Jeux Descartes itself while Steve Jackson Games has recently solicited a very funny little Italian game, X Bugs.

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

[BSo far, I am out of luck. Nobody bothered to reply here or on the OGL mailing list. I'm sincerely quite amazed by this lack of interest... Perhaps publishers aren't interested in sharing what they could consider 'proprietary information'. [/B]

You would likely be right - if you ask 'how much business do you do in Europe?' you will likely be greeted with 'enough, thank you very much!'

Despite gaming being a social activity, competition does indeed exist between companies involved in the industry, as recent events have shown and, like any competitive structure, no participant wishes to give any advantage away for nothing. You may well do better if you take the time and trouble to contact publishers individually and privately. After all, no one knows who you are. . .

There are a lot of European gaming sites, of course in the various main languages of Europe. The problem is, in my opinion, that the US gaming community seems to have interest only in itself and devotes very little, if any, attention to European gaming, games and gamers. This 'isolationist' attitude is shared by Americans in general, I fear. [/B]

Heh This is not just the US, I hasten to add. It seemed quite a while before many people twigged we were actually British. On both sides of the ocean. . .

 

[DSC-EricPrice]

My apologies if this doesnt flow well. Its monday morning and Im feeling it.

Im going to start by saying that I suspect the language barrier is the single largest entry obstacle for most d20 companies. If you arent WotC where you have some cash flow and economies of scale it might prove very difficult financially to republish your adventure.

Ask yourself these questions.

What is the average number in a print run from WotC?
What is the aberage number in a print run from a d20 publisher?

Without looking for specific numbers, past coversations on that topic indicate that WotC prints more of a product by a factor of 5 or even 10. That said, as a publisher I have to wonder. If Im still not selling as many copies here as the industry leader, why would I spend extra time and money to penetrate into a foreign country? A country where I dont know the state of gaming, where I dont speak the language, and where I must rely on a 3rd party to translate my product (usually paying them to do so). Then there is the issue of advertising my product overseas (which directly competes with the money Ive set aside for advertising in the US).

When you consider the translation costs, doing a second print run in French would cost as much as doing a print run in my native english (though the development time is lessened in all likelihood). Most smaller publishers like Dragon Scale Counters simply cant afford such a gamble in an already saturated market.

In closing I can say that there is evidence people from other countries are familiar with my product. We've sold our counters all around the world now - Switzerland, England, Germany, Japan, Australia, and Canada just to name a few. Im afraid, for now, those people are going to have to have access to the internet and be able to read english.

Perhaps more on this topic later. It does interest me.

 

[Mongoose_Matt]

Counters are also a good product to avoid language barriers

Overall, we have not found it to be a huge problem - a good portion of our total sales (English language) go to Europe, though there is always the feeling that it could be developed further. However, it seems that the market for translations is not the best around especially (if memory serves me correctly) only the PHB has been translated, for example, into German. They are still waiting for the DMG & MM. Think about that if you are in the UK and waiting for WotC goods, or in the US waiting for Mongoose material!

We are now in the process of being published in Italian, Spanish and French with German on the way (I think - I am not usually the one who deals with this side of things), but it is all handled under licence from us - we don't get involved directly.

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

So far, I am out of luck. Nobody bothered to reply here or on the OGL mailing list. I'm sincerely quite amazed by this lack of interest... Perhaps publishers aren't interested in sharing what they could consider 'proprietary information'.

I would support the suggestion that you also contact a the publishers individually so they have the option of answering privately. Also keep in mind that this is the month leading to Gen Con in the US, and that means that most gaming publishers are working feversihly to get their stuff ready for the Big Con. After Gen Con things return to normal, and if by then you have received no answer you could try again.

There are a lot of European gaming sites, of course in the various main languages of Europe.

Not a problem for me, I know English, Spanish and enough Italian to read it and get 85% of it (oddly enough my knowledge of gaming terms in Italian is better than say my ability to ask for complex directions). So I am covered in the UK, Spain, and Italy. In France I can more or less defend myself; I'm sure I could say "I waste 'im with my crossbow!" if pressed.
Unfortunately, most Americans are monolingual.

The problem is, in my opinion, that the US gaming community seems to have interest only in itself and devotes very little, if any, attention to European gaming, games and gamers. This 'isolationist' attitude is shared by Americans in general, I fear.

Agreed, but this is not the place for a socio-political-psychological debate on this issue. However, it is extremly true. I think the fact that most Americans do not bother to learn even a second language is the most obvious sign of this.

Americans have seen many French and German boardgames translated in English by Rio Grande Games and by Jeux Descartes itself while Steve Jackson Games has recently solicited a very funny little Italian game, X Bugs.

And I saw so many more last year when I visited Europe!!! Plus d20 products I see online from France, Germany and other countries... Just imagine the possibilities.

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

We are now in the process of being published in Italian, Spanish and French with German on the way (I think - I am not usually the one who deals with this side of things), but it is all handled under licence from us - we don't get involved directly.

I realize that for many companies that are composed of purely monolingual people this may not be an option, but there are a number of companies that DO feature bilingual (or more) members in their staff... Why not make this an issue inside the company? If you do know other languages, no one is more familiar with your product than yourself! Plus the design is already done. The most problematic thing I can see is learning the translation of some of the technical terms (elf in Spanish=elfo, orc in Spanish=orco, etc.), and that's nothing that a few well-placed emails can't fix. I think.
It seems to me these are missed opportunities, at least on the US side. Not sure how it would work for Mongoose and other UK-based companies. (Are there any other UK-based companies?)

 

[Jim Butler]

In the past I have seen some remarks (notably by Ryan Dancey) about the importance of 'developing more' the European
markets. Please note that the EU is not the US in 'Euro sauce': there is no single market for gaming products (due mainly to
different languages and I know of no 'European rights' contracts in gaming business so far). The UK for the purposes of this
survey is considered part of the US Publishing Empire for language and distribution reasons (for example, I receive the
Mongoose book from Alliance/Diamond, not from Great Britain 8-]).

1) What is your opinion about European markets regarding D&D/d20 products in general?

The European markets represent great potential, but so far virtually no one has successfully cracked them save for local publishers. WotC and TSR both handled the situation in the past by licensing other companies to perform translations of their works, but that strategy didn't result in a capturing of a large portion of the market share.

France and Germany are the two largest RPG markets. All others are significantly smaller. Judging by the success of translated computer games, there are some other interesting market opportunities in Europe that have not been tapped.

Translations and distribution networks represent the two largest hurdles for publishers to overcome in Europe.

2) Do European markets have a significant share of your overall sales?

Nope. Less than 5% of our sales come from overseas markets (and it's probably about the same for WotC).

3) Do you work directly with European wholesalers or are your company's products sold to European markets via US
wholesalers (such as the Diamond/Alliance conglomerate)?

We sell direct to European distributors. In addition, we've also assigned translations of our properties to two companies (so far). Wyrd Editions is translating Bastion Press products in Italian; Mitsukukai Editora is translating our products into Brazilian Portuguese.

4) Do you have (or had) any specific policies targeting European markets?

I'm generally keeping an open door policy toward the European markets. As opportunities present themselves, I'll pursue them. I'd love to find licensees to translate and distribute our products overseas, for instance.

5) Do you have any translation agreements with European publishers?

Yes; see above.

6) Were translations of your company's products successful?

None of our products have been released as translations yet. Historically, translations represent a small fraction of revenue for game publishers. It's something you do because it's the right thing to do; not because it will make you rich. ;-)

7) When you plan a product, do you consider of significant importance the fact it could be sold outside the US and that it could
be translated in a foreign language?

No. This could be a more significant concern when developing new lines of products or taking on a license, but sales are low enough overseas that this isn't typically of paramount concern.

Have you ever seen original European d20 products in non English language?

No; not beyond the core D&D books, anyway.

9) Have you ever considered the idea of having European authors working on your company's products?

Where an author lives isn't an important consideration for us; we'll work with anyone as long as they've got a firm grasp of the English language and can keep in touch with us via email.

Do you see, in the long term, an integrated US-EU gaming market?

It really depends on what areas of integration you're talking about. I think that you can see some additional integration where markets are accepting of English-language products, allowing the publisher to make use of his current products in those markets. In areas where products must be translated into the local language, the chance of integration is much smaller.

Many d20 companies have fairly small print runs to begin with. If a market requires translations to be successful, it could very well lower this number so much that it wouldn't be possible to make a profit on one's work. Add the additional burden of finding retail stores, distribution, and marketing venues overseas, and the challenges become immense for a successful product launch.

That's where local companies who understand their markets can be a great boon to us. For most companies, licensing is probably the best option.

 

[Morrus]

[BThere are a lot of European gaming sites,[/B]

In fact, you're on one!