Evaluation of 3.5 Rule Changes.

satori01

First Post
Now that it has been a couple of years since the 3.5 switch over, I think it would be interesting to revisit what changes worked, what supposedly 'awful' changes had no real detrimental impact, and what changes do not work.

I'll start the ball rolling:

Power Attack: The 2 for 1 damage return for Power Attacking with a two handed weapon I think is the single biggest, and probably detrimental change to the 3.x rule set. The payoff is just too extreme. Most of the broken, almost absurd damage dealing monstrosities we see posted on the net, all rely on that 2:1 return with Power Attack.

In the history of D&D as a whole, the Two Handed Weapon was not the most popular choice. It was kinda risky to sacrifice a Shield for the Two Handed Sword. The Holy Grail was the Bastard Sword. Has anyone seen a player choose to take Exotic Weapon Prof Bastard Sword? If you want to deal damage as a meleeist you have to take Power Attack and use a Two Handed Weapon.

The change overwhelms the rules, encourages everyone to play a similar character, and exacerbates spells like Wraithstrike, or powers like those found in Bo9s.

On the positive side, the 10 minute buff duration for the core group of stat buffs, really did not have that disastrous of an impact. At around 10 level most people will have equipment that adds Enhancement bonuses to their primary stats anyway, so the spells fall into disfavor eventually.

Also though not explicitly released in the 3.5 revision of the Core Rule Books, I like the further use of Immediate and Swift actions. Encourages people to pay closer attention to what people are doing when it is not their turn, and it makes sense to be able to perform a full action with certain buff spells.

What are your battle tested opinions on the changes made by 3.5?
 

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Man do I miss me some old fashioned haste...

I learned haste with my most recent wizard, only to discover it just increases my speed by 30, my armor class by one, and something else by 1 (saving throws maybe?). It gave me an extra attack, but that's somewhat useless to me...

I've yet to cast haste on myself again after that...
 


Scraht said:
Man do I miss me some old fashioned haste...

I learned haste with my most recent wizard, only to discover it just increases my speed by 30, my armor class by one, and something else by 1 (saving throws maybe?). It gave me an extra attack, but that's somewhat useless to me...

I've yet to cast haste on myself again after that...

It boost 1 creature per level, so it' a pretty big boost to everybody else in the party
 

Er, I don't see how Power Attack, of all things, is "overpowering" in 3.5x, considering the relative power levels of spellcasters compared to martial classes.

The only change I don't like (which is also house ruled in my own game) is the change of teleportation type spells from transmutation to conjuration.
 

Dead Wrong

satori01 said:
Power Attack: The 2 for 1 damage return for Power Attacking with a two handed weapon I think is the single biggest, and probably detrimental change to the 3.x rule set. The payoff is just too extreme. Most of the broken, almost absurd damage dealing monstrosities we see posted on the net, all rely on that 2:1 return with Power Attack.

In the history of D&D as a whole, the Two Handed Weapon was not the most popular choice.

The 2 for 1 bit works great... on kobolds... How many "soft" (low AC) targets does your game contain when the party members achieve significant levels???

As to "history", NOBODY ever favored two-handed weapons until 3e... The probability of magical two-handers from earlier treasure tables sucked. And no great leverage was provided by the game for 2H.
 
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I like the 2:1 ratio on power attack. The only thing I might consider is limiting it to 5 (like expertise), and making an improved power attack feat, or ditching floaty shields (more inclined to do the latter). So far, it hasnt been a real issue though. Exotic weapon proficiency: bastard sword (and really ALL exotic weapon profs aside from the spiked chain) have always sucked. Its a feat for on average 1 extra point of damage. Whoopty crap. The double weapon ones just serve to make two weapon fighting suck less. The spiked chain actually feeds into a combat style. If there were more tactical options with the bastard sword and others, they would be worth the feat cost. As it stands, I just divy them up among the various races/cultures and grant weapon familiarity similar to how dwarves treat the dwarven waraxe and urgrosh as a martial weapon.

The buff duration change IS annoying for me though. I hate tracking spell durations. The 1 hour/level pretty much made them always on during the active part of the day. I'd prefer a smaller bonus that lasts all day, with a limit of how many buffs can be on you at a time.
 

In the 3 and a half years since 3.5 was released (we've only been on it for 3 years ourselves) it's been pretty good to our group.

Power attack: contrary to the original poster's experiences, it drew a return to two-handed weapons to our group. Power attack was affecting two-weapon wielders better than it was affecting the two-hander people, and the changes reversed that. I would say that people who think that power-attack and two-handedness are the only way to go, are missing something truly important, which is the 2-to-9 point AC increase from a shield! (If you add in Player's handbook 2, that's more like a 4 to 11 point increase!) That's a pretty serious trade off, in the face of sword-and-board.

Haste: I think their recognizing the importance of multiple actions in combat was a good thing, and one serious balancing factor in making 3.5 less off-kilter as time has gone on.

Save DC's: Reigning in save DC numbers was a very good thing, from what I've seen: In the olden days, watching a 3.0 sorcerer or wizard getting Save DCs of the high 30's to low 40's BY TENTH LEVEL when all the supplements were counted was a truly diheartening thing for anyone who was not immune. Heck, even spell resistance was almost useless, as most of the bonuses that boosted save DC also boosted caster level as well.

there were some things I took issue with (darkness spells was one which annoyed me, and one I didn't see any problems with way back when, as well as "keen crit" stackings) but all in all the changes were good for our games.
 

Gave Players Buff Options / 3.5 Changes

2 pts for 3e duration / 4 pts for 3.5 duration

The short Fly sucks.

The 2nd level Spider Climb (thank you Andy) sucks

Many small 3.5 changes sucked...

Did I mention I thought they sucked ?

Also, the whole weaponry golf-bag Magic weap / Greater Magic Weap, Axiomatic Evil Trouncing Adamantine +2 Can Opener of Banish Demon Slaying sucks... Mostly because on an unfocused campaign (as opposed to "in this campaign you must defeat demons" or "gargoyles", etc), it is unamanageable. It was so BAD in implementation in fact that from the start (before errata), demons and devils could slug it out eternally w/o ever damaging their opponent.
 

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