Evard's black tentacles

[Egres]

Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage.

Do the tentacles grapple and make a grapple check in the same round, or do they start a grapple in the first and start to damage your opponents in the following rounds?

 

[godawful]

first off, i hate this spell, it slows combat by ten billion percent. i think you answered your own question there. 'once the tentacles grapple an opponent' that's round 1. if they maintain the grapple in the successive round, then the damage is dealt. that's how i handle it anyway.
p.s. notice the material component is a piece of tentacle from a giant squid or octopus. make those EXTREMELY rare so you don't have to worry about this annoying spell

 

[Egres]

first off, i hate this spell, it slows combat by ten billion percent. i think you answered your own question there. 'once the tentacles grapple an opponent' that's round 1. if they maintain the grapple in the successive round, then the damage is dealt. that's how i handle it anyway.
p.s. notice the material component is a piece of tentacle from a giant squid or octopus. make those EXTREMELY rare so you don't have to worry about this annoying spell

I feel your pain.

But:

Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don’t bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

 

[shilsen]

godawful is right - the damage only kicks in from the round after the opponent is successfully grappled.

As for slowing combat down hugely, I think he's overreacting. I've had EBT used in a lot of my games, as player and DM, and it's never been a problem.

 

[Warmage-in-Onley]

A non-EBT grapple deals damage "as if with an unarmed strike" in the round the grapple is initiated. Why wouldn't Evard's operate under the same grappling rules?

The "once the tentacles grapple an opponent" language dictates the tentacles' options once the grapple is established. I agree that the spell is poorly worded.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Always ruled that they deal damage the first round, just like any other grapple?

Why?

Because it's easier to remember than "does it go off now, or does it have special rules?"

It's a grapple, it has a damage listed, it does that damage as soon as it successfully grapples and every round after that. Simplicity itself.

--fje

 

[airwalkrr]

Yes, it's a powerful spell (perhaps too powerful), but that's off-topic. In a normal grapple, you deal damage on the first round after successfully initiating a grapple so I see no reason why EBT should be an exception. I believe a more profound question is the age-old querry of whether EBT deals nonlethal or lethal damage. But I digress.

 

[Kalshane]

At least it's better than the 3.0 version where you had to chart out which square each tenticle was in. That was time-consuming.

 

[KarinsDad]

I believe a more profound question is the age-old querry of whether EBT deals nonlethal or lethal damage.

EBT grapples. Damage in a grapple is that of an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes deal nonlethal damage.

Hence, EBTs deal nonlethal damage. Granted, it is bludgeoning damage (as if that matters for a spell), but it is still nonlethal (note: unarmed strike damage is bludgeoning as well).

There doesn't seem to be a rules question here at all.


Btw, the fact that EBT does nonlethal damage is what balances the spell. This spell can knock a creature unconscious, but it cannot kill a creature.

 

[Abraxas]

EBT grapples. Damage in a grapple is that of an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes deal nonlethal damage.

Hence, EBTs deal nonlethal damage. Granted, it is bludgeoning damage (as if that matters for a spell), but it is still nonlethal (note: unarmed strike damage is bludgeoning as well).

There doesn't seem to be a rules question here at all.

I believe the question comes up because EBT doesn't follow the procedures for grappling - there is no touch attack to initiate the grapple. The spell uses an opposed grapple check instead of a saving throw to determine if creatures within its spread are affected. Also, damage for an unarmed strike from a large creature is usually 1d4 not 1d6. (note: Like unarmed strikes, tentacle damage is bludgeoning damage)

Separate from that, do spells have to explicitly state they do non-lethal damage for the damage not to be normal?

And a question, assuming the spell works the way you state, do you give the tentacles iterative grapple attempts based on the high BAB?