Even MORE polearm questions, yay!

[King-Panda]

Come and Get It - Fighter Attack 7, PH
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Close burst 3
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Effect: Each target must shift 2 and end adjacent to you, if possible. A target that can’t end adjacent to you doesn’t move. You can then attack any targets that are adjacent to you (close burst 1).
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Epic feat, Martial Power - Reaching Whirlwind
"While wielding a reach weapon, you can treat any fighter attack power that has the weapon keyword and that is a close burst 1 as a close burst 2 instead."


First off, would Reaching Whirlwind affect Come and Get It's attack?

Secondly, how does this all come into play with the following, especially regarding the Custserv response in Mistwell's "Movement vs. Entering - Interesting CustServ Response" post? I'm lost as to how this would all work out.


Polearm Gamble
"When a nonadjacent enemy enters a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack with a polearm against that enemy"

Fighter Feature: Combat Superiority
"An enemy struck by your opportunity attack stops moving, if a move provoked the attack."

Opportunity Actions state:
"Once per Combatant’s Turn: You can take no more than one opportunity action on each other combatant’s turn. You can’t take an opportunity
action on your own turn."

If you can't take Opp actions on your turn, it makes this all moot. I hope specific (Power+Feats+Class Abil) doesn't beat general (what Opp actions states) in this case.

 

[Mort_Q]

First off, would Reaching Whirlwind affect Come and Get It's attack?

No. Nowhere in Come and Get It is there a "Close Burst 1"

Secondly, how does this all come into play with the following

It doesn't. You can't take opportunity actions on your turn.

 

[Caliban]

Come and Get It - Fighter Attack 7, PH
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Close burst 3
Target: Each enemy in burst you can see
Effect: Each target must shift 2 and end adjacent to you, if possible. A target that can’t end adjacent to you doesn’t move. You can then attack any targets that are adjacent to you (close burst 1).
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.

Epic feat, Martial Power - Reaching Whirlwind
"While wielding a reach weapon, you can treat any fighter attack power that has the weapon keyword and that is a close burst 1 as a close burst 2 instead."


First off, would Reaching Whirlwind affect Come and Get It's attack?

No, as it doesn't give a bonus to the close burst radius, it instead replaces Close Burst 1 with Close Burst 2. Since Come and Get it is not a Close Burst 1 power, it is not affected by the feat.

Secondly, how does this all come into play with the following, especially regarding the Custserv response in Mistwell's "Movement vs. Entering - Interesting CustServ Response" post? I'm lost as to how this would all work out.


Polearm Gamble
"When a nonadjacent enemy enters a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack with a polearm against that enemy"

Fighter Feature: Combat Superiority
"An enemy struck by your opportunity attack stops moving, if a move provoked the attack."

Opportunity Actions state:
"Once per Combatant’s Turn: You can take no more than one opportunity action on each other combatant’s turn. You can’t take an opportunity
action on your own turn."

If you can't take Opp actions on your turn, it makes this all moot. I hope specific (Power+Feats+Class Abil) doesn't beat general (what Opp actions states) in this case.

You can't take Opportunity Actions on your turn, so Polearm Gamble would not grant you an OA when using Come and Get it.

Now, if you want it to get around the "no OA's on your turn" rule, you could ready an action to use Come and Get it, so that it's not your turn when you use it. I still don't think you would get an OA from Polearm Gamble though, as forced movement doesn't provoke OA's.

 

[King-Panda]

Thanks for the quick responses, you pretty much confirmed what I already thought. The main reason I asked these questions anyway is because of the recent custserv listed in Mistwell's recent post. At first I thought it meant if a power says "enters" instead of "moves", all affects would apply, even if by forced movement. I didn't think this was correct, but I wanted to double-check. I still don't really understand that custserv, but doesn't really matter now.

And Mort Q, regarding Come and Get It, there is a Close Burst 1 listed in the power. I was pretty sure Reaching Whirlwind wouldn't apply anyways, but again, just wanted to ask. The fact that the attack itself (inside the power) was listed as Close Burst 1 is what confused me.

 

[UltimaGabe]

And Mort Q, regarding Come and Get It, there is a Close Burst 1 listed in the power. I was pretty sure Reaching Whirlwind wouldn't apply anyways, but again, just wanted to ask. The fact that the attack itself (inside the power) was listed as Close Burst 1 is what confused me.

There IS a Close Burst 1 in the power, but it's much less of an issue than you'd think. If you recall, all enemies are pulled adjacent to you (not pulled within your melee range), and if they can't be pulled adjacent to you (such as if there's an enemy in the way) they aren't moved at all. Therefore, when the attack goes off, there will rarely be enemies that a burst 2 would hit that a burst 1 wouldn't. It could happen, if, say, there were a wall of enemies on one side, and a single enemy on the other side of that wall (who would thus me unmoved since a pull couldn't put them adjacent to you)- but that's not a huge advantage, and if you think about it, you're using an epic feat in conjunction with a level 7 power (and if I recall, there's higher-level fighter powers that are far better than Come and Get It).

So, in other words, it CAN benefit, but it's not as common or as powerful as you'd think.

 

[Mort_Q]

And Mort Q, regarding Come and Get It, there is a Close Burst 1 listed in the power.

Sorry, I was using the revised version.

Revision (7/28/2008)

 

[Thundershield]

While the secondary attack's range, which indeed is Close burst 1, gets replaced with Close burst 2 by the Reaching Whirlwind feat, it is a moot point as the targets of the secondary attack are all adjacent enemies.

In other words, you could write up the secondary attack like this:

Free Action Close burst 1
Target: Each target of the primary attack adjacent to you

Changing the range wouldn't allow you to hit more enemies as standing outside a close burst 1 would mean they wouldn't be adjacent.

As for combining "Polearm Gamble" and "Come and Get It", that is at first glance not possible as Polearm Gamble grants OAs, which you can't take on your own turn. However, if you ready the power it becomes an immediate reaction (as per the Ready rules), which is something you take outside your turn, meaning you can get the OAs.

Incredibly cheesy, but possible if you go by the RAW.

See Caliban's post above..

 

[King-Panda]

Good catch Thundershield, I'm pretty sure we can announce these combos fully trounced.

And Mort, I had an inkling that might have been the case, but was too lazy to check to see if this was errata'd. I guess I should probably start reading those things, eh?

 

[Thundershield]

As for combining "Polearm Gamble" and "Come and Get It", that is at first glance not possible as Polearm Gamble grants OAs, which you can't take on your own turn. However, if you ready the power it becomes an immediate reaction (as per the Ready rules), which is something you take outside your turn, meaning you can get the OAs.

Incredibly cheesy, but possible if you go by the RAW.

See Caliban's post above..

As for pulling off this trick, I've found that it's not that cheesy.

Even if you ready to the following opponent's turn, and then use your Immediate Reaction to pull off your readied "Come and Get It", and your opportunity action to strike one of the opponents that end up adjacent to you (and only one as you only get one opportunity action on each other combatant's turn), the opponent who's turn you're pulling this off in can then move away with impunity as you've already used your Immediate action (and thus can't use your Combat Challenge) and your opportunity action (and thus can't stop him with Combat Superiority).

So, all in all, it's not that bad, really. The limit of one opportunity action per other combatant's turn is a splendid hard cap.