Even the Gilmore Girls don't like D&D....

[Frostmarrow]

I'm rather proud of being a gamer. The people I work with know next to nothing about RPGs. Some of them, the ones I like, I try to educate. I tell them what RPGs are in the mystical way they already have been told. I never start; "Well, its like theatre only..." I say that it's the future. We shape the future. "I'm going to Narnia this week-end, do you want me to get you something?" I might quip on friday afternoon.

A friend asked me to come and visit him. I told him I couldn't because it was gaming night. He asked what was so important about gaming night and I said:
"Well, if you can get seven guys together at the same time for twelve hours straight, you'd better come. Besides, you don't want Milton Drac to finish that lighthouse, now do you?"
"Hum, I guess not."

I hint that they have been left out of this huge community with intellectual riches they never will get access to. I brag about the coherency of boys from around the globe. How, we instictively know each other even before we meet for we have common language, a common basis for communication (DMG and PHB). (I'm not sure but I imagine that gamers are welcome at other gamer's? Say, I travel to Germany, do you think any germans here could provide room and board for me?) Actually, I'm making them quite jealous. I never invite them. I don't want them in my game I just want them to know.

Perhaps, they think I'm a geek but I really don't care much. I have self-esteem coming out my ears. I know they miss out on something great and I can't help tempting them a bit. They are intrigued but they will have to explore it for themselves.

As a gamer I take credit in the making of LotR and even StarWars. I take pride in both StarTrek and Buffy. I think to myself. "I didn't exactly write that bit but I know where the inspiration comes from."

 

[Zander]

I'm suprised no one else mentioned it, then again maybe they did and I skimmed past it. There was another episode of X-Files once where the psycho the picked up made a reference to DnD, something like,

"I didn't play Dungeons and Dragons for so many years and not learn something about courage..."

I was going to mention that - you beat me to it!

It's been a long time since I saw that episode, but wasn't the character who says it just a victim/witness? I think he said that after Mulder asked him if he was frightened. It implies that D&D makes you courageous, which is positive spin.

This may have already been mentioned and it's a bit OT, but Eliot's brother and friends are playing D&D or some other RPG near the beginning of ET.

There was a documentary on British television years ago about RPG's. Gamers were made to seem strange, but not sinister or geeky. RPG's have featured on at least three other British TV programmes: one of them was positive and the other two were neutral verging on positive.

 

[A2Z]

I'm suprised no one else mentioned it, then again maybe they did and I skimmed past it. There was another episode of X-Files once where the psycho the picked up made a reference to DnD, something like,

"I didn't play Dungeons and Dragons for so many years and not learn something about courage..."

The Lone Gunmen play D&D too. They've made a few comments on both the X-files and they're own short lived show. Nothing negative except for the fact that they could be considered 'geeky'.

 

[nadir]

couple new things to mention...

...that I haven't seen in this thread. First, I think one of the things that got D&D a bad name initially was the book "Dungeon Master" that came out in the 80's. Essectially, it was the story of a mentally disturbed person who was heavily into D&D and died in the sewers or something, supposedly thinking he was in a fantasy world. Lot's could be said about this, but suffice it to say I think a lot of well-meaning people got cause and effect confused: instead of his mental illness causing all his problems, they thought D&D did, or at least to a large extent D&D did. I think that part of the problem is parents/religious people tend to "be on the lookout" for these hot-button issues that could hurt their kids. Personally, I think a very greedy, self-centered person is far more "satanic" than any super in-depth D&D person is, or ever could be.

As far as all the TV comments go, I don't watch much tv, but if I did, personally, I wouldn't take it (negative comments) too seriously because I don't take any "entertainment" offered on tv too seriously. Though I understand why some people might take offense, and I'm glad there's this kind of sensitivity out there, because I'm an overall sensitive person.

Tracy Hickman has some cool essays on some of these broader cultural/religious issues that I think you all might appreciate here:


http://www.trhickman.com/

(go to "Games and Entertainment" then go to "Essays", located on the right under the Top Ten FAQ)

 

[Metheus]

Wow

Wow, those are some impressive statements all around.
I've seen the negative public connotations, I've seen the positive aspects of the game.
I just happened to flip to the Hank Azaria show at the moment of the D+D game. It was cute, but why do they always have to dress up for gaming?
The game perception has changed a few times since I started playing back in the very early 80's, but that has as much to do with the social/political climate at the time. Its only an issue when people are willing to listen to it. Remember that American public media is geared towards lack of thought and at times is highly anti-intellectual. Most people fear the complex, and to most, D+D falls right in there with trig, tax laws, and Dennis Miller. Its why the ratings are split between Jerry Springer and pro wrestling.
A little perspective goes a long way with this game. Remember that most of the people saying negative things also know every stat for every ball player around or sit around once a week for hours eating, drinking, and playing cards. From my perspective, the sports nut is more of a geek than anything I could come up with as a role-player (How many of you have stripped, painted yourself, and sat in the cold for a few hours of D+D? Or collected every spellcard created that involves fire? Can you name every convention Gygax was at?)
By having a little humor and perspective, the D+D slights are no better or worse than any other humor that makes fun of a certain group. Feel happy you are unique enough to get your own comedy.
Oh yeah, for the columbine statement about what they were playing, ask the person what breakfast cerial he/she likes, whatever it is, tell them that was the cerial the columbine kids ate.

--Edit, oh yeah, forgot about 'Dungeon Master.' It was not a precisely written book, but if you read the discriptions of what this kid was doing besides D+D, it clearly shows that he was messed up and D+D was just another facet. It was a thick book, though, and I think most people just read the reviews or the back cover, which hinted at D+D as the problem in order to sell the book. That was some old-skool playing going on though, which the author takes part in order to understand the game.

 

[WizarDru]

Re: couple new things to mention...

...that I haven't seen in this thread. First, I think one of the things that got D&D a bad name initially was the book "Dungeon Master" that came out in the 80's. Essectially, it was the story of a mentally disturbed person who was heavily into D&D and died in the sewers or something, supposedly thinking he was in a fantasy world.

You may mean 'Mazes and Monsters', which was a bad book made into a bad TV Movie, who's only recommending feature outside of featuring a bad perspective on gaming is that Tom Hanks plays the mentally distraught gamer who goes off the deep end.

By the point that had occured, there was already a strong anti-gaming sentiment amongst some reactionaries, and it was laready a subject of national debate. I remember Gary Gygax going on a Nickelodeon talk show they had at the time, to discuss D&D and dispel many of the myths. As soon as D&D hit the popular culture in a big way, it became a target for those who are uncomfortable with such things. It could be Rock and Roll, Pokemon, NYPD Blue or any host of things that will set such folks off. You just need to accept that some folks will never see eye-to-eye with you and move on.

As to Buffy and Angel's representation of geeks, I have two things to point out. First, most geek references, including the Trio, are nudge-nudge-wink-wink references, from one friend to another. They know the audience, and the geeks in question are often presented with some degree of balance. Jonathan, in particular, has been shown to be a pretty good guy, but with some issues that pull him off course. Second, in a world where demons, wizards and vampires exist and stalk the night....wouldn't the professional hunters of the night be a little disparaging of folks who play games about it?

 

[Zander]

Re: Wow

--Edit, oh yeah, forgot about 'Dungeon Master.' It was not a precisely written book, but if you read the discriptions of what this kid was doing besides D+D, it clearly shows that he was messed up and D+D was just another facet. It was a thick book, though, and I think most people just read the reviews or the back cover, which hinted at D+D as the problem in order to sell the book. That was some old-skool playing going on though, which the author takes part in order to understand the game.

I have read it cover-to-cover, albeit several years ago. It's the true story of Dallas Egbert, a bright but messed up kid who went missing while at university. His parents hired a private detective called William Dear to find him. Dear is the author of the book.

Dallas Egbert was gay, but not old enough to have s-x - even though he did anyway. He was also a drug addict. He sometimes played a kind of LARP in the steam tunnels under his college's campus and he also played D&D. He went to RPG conventions, but didn't seem to play much D&D at university.

Egbert had serious psychological problems stemming from his troubled relationship with his parents. Eventually, he decided to end it all by committing suicide. He climbed into the steam tunnels and took an overdose... but it didn't kill him. Half unconscious, he managed to crawl to a gay friend's house. He stayed for a while and convalesced. His friend knew Egbert was underage and moved him to the house of another gay friend.

It was about this time that Dear enters the picture. He guessed that Egbert was being hidden by the gay community who were terrified of being found with someone who was underage. To divert attention away from the gay community and make them more forthcoming with information, Dear fabricated a story that Egbert had gone missing in the steam tunnels while playing D&D. The story spread from the local to the national media who were fascinated with this strange and dangerous new game (as it seemed to them at the time). The ploy worked for Dear (and for TSR, but that's a different story) who obtained information from the gay community that Egbert had been moved out of state. Dear found Egbert and reunited him with his parents.

Tragically, the relationship between Egbert and his parents didn't improve. Some time later, he put a gun to his head and took his own life.

It should be stressed that Dear was not anti-D&D. He never intended to drag D&D through the mud, just to create a temporary smoke-screen. According to his account, he even tried D&D, and while he didn't become a gamer, he didn't really dislike it either. Dear is sometimes vilified by gamers for damaging D&D's reputation, but it wasn't done out of malice. He just wanted to save Dallas Egbert.

Zander
UK National Co-ordinator of CAR-PGa (Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games)

 

[Wolfspider]

Hey! Someone from CAR-PGa! It's good to see you on the board, promoting the hobby.

 

[William Ronald]

Zander,

Thanks. I have used your resources a lot. There are so many misconceptions they would almost be funny.

Except that people are being treated poorly because of them. Please keep up the good work.

William

 

[mythusmage]

Memories Serving Us Wrong

The chap in question was one James Dallas Egbert III, a college student, child prodigy, and troubled homosexual. He disappeared, being sheltered by the local homosexual community near his college. A private detective found him, there was an attempt at reconciling with his family, but it failed and he ended up committing suicide.

Stories of games in the university's steam tunnels have been told, but no evidence that such have ever occured. Those who have been in the tunnels have reported that the tunnels are much too small to hold such.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Alan