Everquest Suicide and Lawsuit

[bret]

If I were the defendant, I would try to make the other side make a statement to the effect that 'it was his only source of social interaction.'

If there were to say that, then you may be able to reverse the whole argument and show that the game actually delayed his suicide.

If it was his only form of social interaction, then without the game he wouldn't have had any social interaction. Lack of social interaction is bad. Without the interaction, the person would have been worse off.


In any event, this case should be tough to prove.

 

[Henry@home]

In any event, this case should be tough to prove.

...Said the Phillip Morris executives to the press about 5 years ago.

First, Fast-food restaurant McDonald's is sued for selling hot coffee - which is part of the purpose of coffee.

Next, Phillip Morris and other tobacco companies are sued for giving cancer to millions of patients who couldn't read a warning label that's been on the packages for 40 years.

Then, people are speaking class-action suits to sue fast-food restaurants for selling them what they want.

Now, a man with deeply disturbing mental problems, against advice, plays a game that he and his immediate family and doctors KNOW could hurt him. The mother plus lawyers are quite willing to sue the company.

In my humble opinion, we are a nation of 6-year olds with legal representation.

Welcome to the harbingers of the 21st century - with the lessons of September 11th and April in Israel left trodden in the dust.

Who's living in a fantasy world now?

 

[Kichwas]

Woolley has tried tracing her son's EverQuest identity to discover what might have pushed him over the edge. Sony Online cites its privacy policy in refusing to unlock the secrets held in her son's account.

She has a list of names her son scrawled while playing the game: "Phargun." "Occuler." "Cybernine." But Woolley is not sure if they are names of online friends, places he explored in the game or treasures his character may have captured in quests.

...

Elizabeth Woolley remembers when her son was betrayed by an EverQuest associate he had been adventuring with for six months. Shawn's online brother-in-arms stole all the money from his character and refused to give it back.

"He was so upset, he was in tears," she said. "He was so depressed, and I was trying to say, 'Shawn, it's only a game.' I said he couldn't trust those people."

bad move on Sony's part to not let get access to the account. That's worth a legitimate lawsuit right there given his death. It could have been triggered by some event in the MUD involving another participant and tracing his actions before his death is a legitimage concern.

 

[Kristof]

nm

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Henry@home: Good points, well-said!

Arcady: It's a GAME. Whatever happened in the GAME is irrelevant, at least IMO. The kid killed himself. The GAME didn't kill him. Whatever may or may not have happened in the GAME did not force him to kill himself.

I for one don't think people should be prosecuted for yelling "Jump!" to suicidal people on bridges or buildings. It may be despicable, but it shouldn't be illegal. If the person jumps, then that's the jumper's decision. Are we a nation of robots, blindly obeying the orders of others? Where is the personal responsibility?

At any rate, Sony made a wise decision legally in not releasing the information to the plaintiff and her attorney. You never release information that could be used against you without a court order, and even then, you appeal, delay, appeal... in the meantime, perhaps the "evidence" gets permanently "misplaced," (deleted or shredded), or you find a way to counter/dismiss its importance somehow. That's how it works. I watch TV lawyer shows.

 

[Tylias]

Admittedly, it is an oversimplification to say this, but:

People have problems. And when they turn to escapism, it often doesn't really matter *what* they turn to - alcohol, drugs, television, porn, online gaming, tobacco, solitaire, food, music, religion, lost causes, cults... it can take a turn for the self-destructive.

As 'dangerous' as any of the above might or might not sound, there are millions who live with them in their everyday lives and it doesn't kill any of them. Doesn't make them unhealthy, either. But a person with a severe problem is likely to do something in excess, to the point that it ruins him or her.

It's not to say that these things are all inherently safe - some are definitely risky. But the primary problem in most cases, it seems to me, is that the afflicted person already had something potentially deadly which he brings to the table, before latching on to the addiction. Something which makes the difference between merely partaking of something and breaking himself over it.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. But it's not always the case; people who have these sorts of trouble need help with their real problems, and it's just sad that they - and we - often can't see what's really going on before it's too late.

 

[Tsyr]

Elizabeth Woolley remembers when her son was betrayed by an EverQuest associate he had been adventuring with for six months. Shawn's online brother-in-arms stole all the money from his character and refused to give it back.

"He was so upset, he was in tears," she said. "He was so depressed, and I was trying to say, 'Shawn, it's only a game.' I said he couldn't trust those people."

If, 6 months after I started everquest or something, my guildmade or similar had betrayed me, I might be close to tears to. It is a game, yes, but the relationships are quite real. It's like saying you can't trust your team in baseball because it's "only a game". Yes, it's a relationship thats a lot less tangible than a normal one, but a relationship none the less. Friendships are planted and grown, and so are rivalries, hatreds, etc. Betrayal hurts just as much online as it does in person.

I totaly agree that this is a bogus lawsuit and won't even bother to list the reasons(To me, it seems like his mother has almost as many problems of her own as her son did), but the "It's only a game" think has always bothered me... well, every since about a month into EQ when I saw what it was becoming. The game is just that, true... a game... but surrounding the game and supporting it is a very real community in almost every sense of the word, with leaders, troublemakers, "enforcers of justice" (kinda), friendships and rivalries, even wars (again, kinda). IMO, MMORPG since Muds have come to that level, and none have since EverQuest. Not a slam against other games, I play some (Noteably Anarchy Online), but they just don't have the same feel.

 

[The Kender]

I have to agree with everybody accept Arcady. Something has got to be wrong with you to kill yourself. Like somebody before said, How many deaths have resulted from Sports? This is the first one because of Everquest. I think the numbers are pretty good.

I have to also agree with the person that said the game delayed his suicide. It provided him with SOME social interaction. Some is better then nothing. Our Society these days(At least in the USA) feels that somebody always has to be at fault. Maybe somebody should think that This kid had problems in the first place, and his parents and doctors knew it.

"A game is all that you let it be. A hobby, or an ubsession; your choice."

Arcady: I disagree. They would be breaking their Privacy Policy. That would get them in a lawsuit that would be worse then this one.

 

[WizarDru]

...Said the Phillip Morris executives to the press about 5 years ago.

First, Fast-food restaurant McDonald's is sued for selling hot coffee - which is part of the purpose of coffee.

Next, Phillip Morris and other tobacco companies are sued for giving cancer to millions of patients who couldn't read a warning label that's been on the packages for 40 years.

Two completely different situations, one often misrepresented.

First, the McDonald's case. The issue had nothing to do with the coffee, per se. The coffee wasn't 'hot'. The coffee caused 3rd-degree burns. That's far in excess of hot. This was done for expediency's sake on the part of McDonalds, so that you're coffee would stay hot for a longer period of time. The victim didn't know this (nor was it reasonable for her to assume that said coffee would be delivered in a potentially dangerous form), spilled the drink and was injured. She asked McDonald's to pay her medical bill, which was a mere few hundred dollars. McDonald's instead decided to try and flog her with a legal bashing. She fought back, and the jury awarded her a victory due more in part to McDonald's unethical behavior after the incident than the incident itself. 3 Million was the initial award, but it was never expected that she would ever actually get the money...it was merely a dollar figure everyone knew would be reduced on appeal...the actual award was more along the lines of $300,000, IIRC. Subtract the legal fees and medical bill, and she didn't receive much for the amount of work missed and time wasted. You'll note that McDonald's no longer 'super-heats' the coffee they serve.

I only mention this because this particular case is always trotted out as an example of our broken legal system, and the ridiculous degeneration of the process, and often by people who don't know that much about the case in question.

Second, the tobacco companies aren't being sued by people who couldn't read a label...they're being sued more by folks who started smoking before labels were even introduced. They're also being sued by states that have to pay the medical bills for all the citizens who are now dying on their medicare programs. The medical situation in this country is radically different than it was when my father started smoking in 1955 or so. And again, Phillip Morris and other companies specifically did everything they could to bury any information about the negative effects of smoking. They showed a long history of suppresion of facts, denial and total disregard for their customer base. Does this render smokers blameless? Certainly not...but the example ain't that simple.

As for Everquest, I find it hard to believe Sony would roll over and die on this case. Legal precedent is already on their side (just ask the Paducah victims, for a start) and there is little benefit for them to encourage more lawsuits. There has been no concealment about Everquest's nature, it is not physically addicting as nicotine can be and it is not inherently harmful to the user (carpal tunnel syndrome not withstanding). I doubt this is a case of desiring money as much as a grieving mother looking for someone to blame and for something to do to mourn her loss. I empathize, even if I don't agree with her.

 

[Ace32]

Guess we should start sueing God next, for creating real life, because of all the friends who betray us there too. NTM, it's addicting to play 'real life'.