Evil Campaign Advice

Asmor

First Post
All it really resulted in was me taking him aside after the session and asking him to please get laid so that we don't have to play in adventures inspired by sexual frustration.

God, I hate when players do that! I mean, it's SOOOO easy to say "you gotta get laid," but make one inappropriate advance towards a player's sister... and they... get... all...

You know what, never mind. I've got to finish preparing the module for tomorrow's game.
 

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So like, Cartoon Evil?

Although I am shocked "Black Adder" is lumped in there. Since Black Adder never really accomplishes anything and really doesn't do anything, aside from being sarcastic.

I'm thinking of all the grasping, selfish schemer's who have no regard for others in the Black Adder universe...Evil but not Serial Killer Rapist Evil.

You don't have to be a sociopath to be Evil, you can just be selfish enough to make the grade.

Re: Cartoon Evil, I guess I exaggerated the "comical" view of evil, to show it can be fun/humorous instead of dark/twisted. But I am thinking of "real life" evil aligned examples that aren't psychopaths. Schemers, thugs, black marketeers, art thieves, corporate spies, etc. People that do extremely unethical things to better themselves.

In our "evil" campaign, aside from the Set worshiper, we're evil because we're greedy and we want a luxurious beachside manor with dancing girls on a tropical paradise island. And we don't care how we get the gold to make our dream a reality.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
I'm thinking of all the grasping, selfish schemer's who have no regard for others in the Black Adder universe...Evil but not Serial Killer Rapist Evil.

You don't have to be a sociopath to be Evil, you can just be selfish enough to make the grade.

Re: Cartoon Evil, I guess I exaggerated the "comical" view of evil, to show it can be fun/humorous instead of dark/twisted. But I am thinking of "real life" evil aligned examples that aren't psychopaths. Schemers, thugs, black marketeers, art thieves, corporate spies, etc. People that do extremely unethical things to better themselves.
You keep coming back to psychopathic serial killers. But really, c'mon. They aren't the only Evil characters folks play. What you're dismissing as psychopath the CE "Do what I feel like with no control and no goal". The best example of this would be the Joker from Batman: The Dark Knight; the Joker wants to burn it all to the ground, because the world needs to burn.

What you describe in your campaign IS a sociopath. A sociopath is just someone who cannot empathize with others because they can't feel emotions. They see other people as not being "real", only tools to be used. Sociopaths excel at manipulating others by mimicing the behavior of emotions. You just typically don't hear about the successful ones because they're... successful. They found a job where having no ability to empathize is useful.

And c'mon. Art thieves don't have to be evil.

I would use any sort of mastermind in any sort of tense thriller movie. Swordfish, Taking of Pentlam 123, several I would use any sort of mastermind in any sort of tense thriller movie. Swordfish, Taking of Pentlam 123, several Die Hard movies, etc. Generally the villain is both methodical AND heartless.

When it comes to Evil PCs, I would actually look at villains. Typically, your villains in books/movies are not villains in their own right. They are not heartless bastards. A good villain, in general, does not consider themselves evil. They consider themselves utterly justified in doing what they do, and view themselves as heroes of their own story. Dr Freeze is trying to save his wife, for instance. Vader is corrupted, and eventually has lost everything, leaving him do what he has made himself. Lucifer rebelled because he loved God too much to bow down to Man.

So an Evil PC isn't a cackling crazy person. If, for instance, Necromancy in your world is evil, then the Pc could just be a necromancer. Not because he wants to create an army of zombies and rule the world with a rotting fist, but he just wants to practice necromancy. Maybe he wants mastery over death in order to STOP death from ever occuring. Maybe he wants immortality for himself.

Having a reason for that evilness beyond "Yeehaw we're evil!" produces depth. Look at the PC as if they were a villain in someone else's story, and ask, "How interesting is this?"




 
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Hand of Evil

Hero
Epic
some of the above is what I mean by defining evil in your game (my soapbox). As Rechan said, just being a necromancer can be evil IF you the GM says it is and EXPLAINS why in the game, this reflexes a socity or cultral taboo. Here is an example:

Horse Thief - in a world as dangerous as D&D can be to be without one could mean death to a person. Horses are also seen as extention of a character class. Those that steal horses are seen as leaving a character to die a horrid death or have taken part of a character's spirit. Know horse thievies can be killed on the spot without retribution from the law.​

Another
Brother Killer - killing a family member is a high crime, because family and brotherhood are the bonds that allow honor to be grown to a family name. Killing a brother reduces the honor that could have been in any children that would carry the family name. Brother killers have no family name, no honor and are not welcome in clan homes.​
 

Mallus

Legend
You can be evil without killing a single person.
Yes, but killing imaginary people is fun for a lot of people. That's part of the reason why so many good characters do it to. In fact, it's probably the biggest thing good and evil characters have in common.

Or how about an evil character with a code of honor?
They're great!

You can be an evil character without being Alex DeLarge.
My group likes to vicariously indulge in a little bit of the old ultraviolence --just not the ultraviolence against women... we won't go there)-- from time to time. It's one of the reasons why we game.
 


DragoonLance

First Post
I guess I just can't understand how people still can't grasp the concept of playing morally gray characters without immediately either becoming "Natural Born Killers" or twirling a black mustache. This just strikes me as bad RP :rant: Hasn't anyone here played Grand Theft Auto? Or watched the Godfather? Or Firefly? Or the Sopranos? How hard is to imagine a character that has an alignment of "Well, I guess I'm ok..." or "Hey, I'm just doing my job, nothing personal."

I really dislike alignments for this reason, somehow it seems to me that many D&D players have the notion that playing an evil aligned character automatically means PVP, rape, random murder, or worse. My favorite fantasy series is the Vlad Taltos novels. The protagonist is an assassin, witch and crime lord (clearly evil alignment,) yet he still has a number of lines he won't cross, is married, has friends and so on. Plus anything he does that becomes "bad for business" and he has to answer to his boss. I would highly recommend this series to anyone considering running an "evil" game.
 

EP

First Post
I guess I just can't understand how people still can't grasp the concept of playing morally gray characters without immediately either becoming "Natural Born Killers" or twirling a black mustache. This just strikes me as bad RP :rant: Hasn't anyone here played Grand Theft Auto? Or watched the Godfather? Or Firefly? Or the Sopranos? How hard is to imagine a character that has an alignment of "Well, I guess I'm ok..." or "Hey, I'm just doing my job, nothing personal."

Something about "not being held back," I wager. Especially when you have a frustrating job or you're a creative person and your boss wants you to be a drone. I mean, you've got the talent and everyone just keeps holding you back. They're afraid of you and you know it.

(ahem) Sorry about that. Relapse.

Every once in a while, I can see the fun in that. I played a morally grey fighter before who held no compunctions about right and wrong so long as the job got done. We had a scene where we were interrogating a goblin or something for information and my fighter stood in the background sharpening knives and talking about how brittle the fingernail is between a pair of clamps. While the idea was that I would play the bad cop, I suddenly found myself wanting to tell everyone else to leave the room and "give me five minutes." That idea was shot down (and we even had a cool scene where I freaked out and we had a shouting match amongst the group) and I was kicked out of the room... to which the goblin proceeded to spill everything he knew about every villain who ever lived. But I remember that urge to just torture that little bugger. I could really feel it and I wanted the release of just letting my morales go and seeing what happened.

Same as when I play Burnout. Sometimes I want to win a race, but mostly I want to smash another car through a shop window. Then everything feels much better.

But it does seem like bad roleplaying at times, especially when everyone tries to be Venger (sp?) or Hannibal Lecter. When you think about it, it's rare to find a collective evil in fiction/movies - the bad guy is always epitomized by a single character.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
Or Firefly?
The only one who would possibly qualify as Grey there is Jane. Mal is definitely Chaotic Good. He does The Right Thing, countless times, he just isn't going to be fair in getting it.

I'm also sort of annoyed with the constant "NOT A SERIAL KILLER". I gesture to Dexter.

Dexter is a serial killer. And yet, he has a code. He only goes after murderers who the system has failed to capture, or would be difficult to capture in the first place. His code requires him to check their guilt first. He satisfies his murderous needs in a vigilante style. Which would make him no different than The Punisher, who is distinctly a "Gray" character.


 

DragoonLance

First Post
My reference to Firefly is more about the crew as a whole, or the jobs they pull. It's not just breaking the more annoying Alliance laws like taking the cargo from a dead freighter, they have little problem with grand theft or assault and they regularly kill people for money or favors. Mal cheerfully continues stabbing a defeated foe (the reference to "I'm ok.") Yes, Jayne is the most obvious source of evil in the show:
"I'll kill a man for money, or if a woman is involved, of if he starts a fight, or if I think he's gonna start a fight..."
But the crew members that have a moral issue with killing someone for getting in their way are in the minority on that boat.

+Edit: bad example, don't want to tread on forum rules.+
I care more for characters acting their role than trying to follow alignment. It's probably also the reason I favor setting like Eberron where the lines are blurred to begin with, on purpose. ;)
 
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